From jimbaross at cox.net  Sat Mar  1 01:26:11 2008
From: jimbaross at cox.net (jimbaross at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 1:26:11 -0500
Subject: [SDCBC] Fwd: [CABO] FW: [SVBC] Bike There on Google Maps
Message-ID: <20080301012611.QGFYW.39842.imail@fed1rmwml25>


> To: "caboforum at topica.com" <caboforum at topica.com>, Western Wheelers <wwbc at svbcbikes.org>
> From: Ellen Fletcher <ef at ellenfletcher.net>
> Subject: [CABO] FW: [SVBC] Bike There on Google Maps
> Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:00:48 -0800
> 
> 
> 
> ------ Forwarded Message
> 
> > From: Josh Moore <mtbikes at gmail.com>
> > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:50:22 -0800
> > To: "bikes at lists.svbc.dreamhost.com" <bikes at lists.svbc.dreamhost.com>
> > Subject: [SVBC] Bike There on Google Maps
> > 
> > Not sure if you all saw this petition already. . .
> > 
> > Ask the kind and benevolent folks at Google to add 'bike
> > there' as a choice to Google maps along with 'drive there'
> > and 'take public transportation there.'
> > 
> > Sign the petition here:
> > 
> > http://www.petitiononline.com/bikether/petition.html
> > 
> > Has this gone round the CBC and SFBC email lists?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Josh
> > _______________________________________________
> > bikes at svbcbikes.org mailing list
> 
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
> 
> 
> --^----------------------------------------------------------------
> This email was sent to: jimbaross at cox.net
> 
> EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiBu.a2kRoe.amltYmFy
> Or send an email to: caboforum-unsubscribe at topica.com
> 
> For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit:
> http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER
> --^----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 


From ralf-roger.pilgrim at t-online.de  Sat Mar  1 13:11:26 2008
From: ralf-roger.pilgrim at t-online.de (ralf-roger.pilgrim at t-online.de)
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 19:11:26 +0100
Subject: [SDCBC]
 =?iso-8859-15?q?Fwd=3A_=5BCABO=5D_FW=3A_=5BSVBC=5D_Bike_T?=
 =?iso-8859-15?q?here_on_Google_Maps?=
In-Reply-To: <20080301012611.QGFYW.39842.imail@fed1rmwml25>
References: <20080301012611.QGFYW.39842.imail@fed1rmwml25>
Message-ID: <1JVWBC-056VI80@fwd27.aul.t-online.de>

dear friends,
put the petition on our Berlin bike activists?newsletter...
greetings
Ralf, Berlin GER

-----Original Message-----
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 07:26:11 +0100
Subject: [SDCBC] Fwd: [CABO] FW: [SVBC] Bike There on Google Maps
From: <jimbaross at cox.net>
To: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org


> To: "caboforum at topica.com" <caboforum at topica.com>, Western Wheelers
<wwbc at svbcbikes.org>
> From: Ellen Fletcher <ef at ellenfletcher.net>
> Subject: [CABO] FW: [SVBC] Bike There on Google Maps
> Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:00:48 -0800
> 
> 
> 
> ------ Forwarded Message
> 
> > From: Josh Moore <mtbikes at gmail.com>
> > Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:50:22 -0800
> > To: "bikes at lists.svbc.dreamhost.com"
<bikes at lists.svbc.dreamhost.com>
> > Subject: [SVBC] Bike There on Google Maps
> > 
> > Not sure if you all saw this petition already. . .
> > 
> > Ask the kind and benevolent folks at Google to add 'bike
> > there' as a choice to Google maps along with 'drive there'
> > and 'take public transportation there.'
> > 
> > Sign the petition here:
> > 
> > http://www.petitiononline.com/bikether/petition.html
> > 
> > Has this gone round the CBC and SFBC email lists?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Josh
> > _______________________________________________
> > bikes at svbcbikes.org mailing list
> 
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
> 
> 
> --^----------------------------------------------------------------
> This email was sent to: jimbaross at cox.net
> 
> EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here:
http://topica.com/u/?aVxiBu.a2kRoe.amltYmFy
> Or send an email to: caboforum-unsubscribe at topica.com
> 
> For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit:
> http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER
> --^----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 

_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as
ralf-roger.pilgrim at t-online.de
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at
http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail
to postmaster at stickman-computing.org




From execdir at sdcbc.org  Tue Mar  4 17:44:23 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:44:23 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] FW: SDCBC post from info@sandiegoriver.org requires approval
Message-ID: <001d01c87e49$4d17b1d0$e7471570$@org>

Two items of interest to the Coalition - a blurb about the bike path in
Mission Valley, and a note that River Days is coming. SDCBC will be hosting
a bike ride on Sunday, May 10th to celebrate the river, so mark your
calendars now!

Kathy

 

Two Major Projects in Mission Valley Underway 
 

Have you seen them yet? More than $3 million dollars worth of projects are
now under construction. These two projects have been high priority projects
for the River Park Foundation, so we are very pleased to see them underway. 

One of the projects is a nearly one mile extension to the San Diego River
Trail. The extension will connect to the existing three miles of trails
along the River to Dog Beach. The project is scheduled to be completed in
late summer. 

The second project is a nearly 5 acre restoration project. The removal of
non-native plants is nearly complete, and the second phase will involve
planting the area with native plants to restore this important part of
Mission Valley Preserve. Our thanks to the San Diego River Conservancy for
their support of this project which is being lead by the City of San Diego. 
More
<http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001J2_jfXFKE_XqC4Hyc77XPdRZqxU2ZR-JPSZjmXFD3gNqg90o
0LUJ8TBKf0Lgn69fjIZxpSL0Fk50X6gHWWQDs96J48YWJfwHD8_t2SA09Imezwz01MTeKp3Ayfqp
wCpG39tYf2fDEUa3uJQfgai5cBtyEO0VllCk>  Project Information 



 

 

River Days is May 10 - 18th 


River Days is almost here! Plan on joining us for two weekends of discovery,
exploration, volunteer projects and fun. 30 events are being planned from
the top of the river to the ocean. 

Details will soon be posted. Sponsorship opportunities are available. 



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080304/124bcb76/attachment.html 

From abulifia1 at cox.net  Wed Mar  5 21:07:12 2008
From: abulifia1 at cox.net (Abulifia)
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 18:07:12 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC]  Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
Message-ID: <47CF51D0.4000001@cox.net>

http://www.ocregister.com/news/bake-parkway-1991108

I'm sorry Ms. Soto was killed, but joggers don't belong in the bike lane. 

From nealhe at cox.net  Wed Mar  5 21:37:49 2008
From: nealhe at cox.net (Neal Henderson)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:37:49 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <47CF51D0.4000001@cox.net>
Message-ID: <003301c87f33$129c1e20$6601a8c0@NealDesk>

Hello All,

California Driver Handbook:

Bicycle Lanes 
A bicycle lane is shown by a solid white line along either side of the
street, four or more feet from the curb. The white line will usually be
broken near the corner and the words "BIKE LANE" will be painted in the
lane. When you are making a right turn and are within 200 feet of the corner
or other driveway entrance, you must enter the bike lane for the turn. Do
not drive in the bike lane at any other time.

You may park in a bike lane unless a "No Parking" sign is posted.

Pedestrians are not allowed in bike lanes when sidewalks are available.
Drivers of motorized bicycles should use bike lanes carefully to avoid
accidents with bicyclists.


-----Original Message-----
From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org [mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]
On Behalf Of Abulifia
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 18:07
To: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF

http://www.ocregister.com/news/bake-parkway-1991108

I'm sorry Ms. Soto was killed, but joggers don't belong in the bike lane. 
_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as nealhe at cox.net
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
postmaster at stickman-computing.org



From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar  6 09:45:11 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 06:45:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <47CF51D0.4000001@cox.net>
Message-ID: <16014.54446.qm@web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I get as frustrated by groups of walkers or joggers hogging the bike lane as much as the rest of you, but mandatory sidepath laws for pedestrians are irrelevant to this particular case. Had Ms. Soto been cycling instead of jogging, the consequences would probably not have changed much, if at all. The motorist was grossly negligent and caused an easily preventable death.

By the way, I do understand the appeal of jogging in the bike lane instead of on the sidewalk -- macadam is a slightly more forgiving surface than concrete, and pedestrians have even worse right-hook and other intersection movement conflict problems than cyclists do. When I walk or jog in a bike lane, I cower against the curb or parked cars to give cyclists the right-of-way, just as I defer to pedestrians on those rare occasions I resort to using a short stretch of sidewalk while cycling.

Abulifia <abulifia1 at cox.net> wrote: http://www.ocregister.com/news/bake-parkway-1991108

I'm sorry Ms. Soto was killed, but joggers don't belong in the bike lane. 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/b056bde3/attachment-0001.html 

From abulifia1 at cox.net  Thu Mar  6 10:23:03 2008
From: abulifia1 at cox.net (Abulifia)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 07:23:03 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <16014.54446.qm@web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <16014.54446.qm@web52503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47D00C57.4050103@cox.net>

I have to believe that running westbound on the eastbound side of the 
parkway distracted with an iPod most likely had something to do with 
it.  That particular section of Bake Parkway and North Pointe Drive in 
Lake Forest is always bad.   And at 6a.m. on a Sunday, it's no 
different.  I don't have the State Vehicle Code section at the moment, 
but regardless of personal opinions on the level of softness the street 
provides vs the sidewalk, the law is the law, and the Handbook clearly 
states joggers don't belong in the bike lane.  And you can bet the farm 
that the law will factor mightily into any lawsuits filed by Ms. Soto's 
heirs.  The city of Lake Forest will not just forgive that she was in 
the wrong and was killed as a result.  The driver may have been 
negligent, but she shouldn't have been running in the bike lane and that 
makes her comparatively negligent.  Translation = very little settlement 
money.




John Eldon wrote:
> I get as frustrated by groups of walkers or joggers hogging the bike 
> lane as much as the rest of you, but mandatory sidepath laws for 
> pedestrians are irrelevant to this particular case. Had Ms. Soto been 
> cycling instead of jogging, the consequences would probably not have 
> changed much, if at all. The motorist was grossly negligent and caused 
> an easily preventable death.
>
> By the way, I do understand the appeal of jogging in the bike lane 
> instead of on the sidewalk -- macadam is a slightly more forgiving 
> surface than concrete, and pedestrians have even worse right-hook and 
> other intersection movement conflict problems than cyclists do. When I 
> walk or jog in a bike lane, I cower against the curb or parked cars to 
> give cyclists the right-of-way, just as I defer to pedestrians on 
> those rare occasions I resort to using a short stretch of sidewalk 
> while cycling.
>

From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar  6 11:04:26 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:04:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <47D00C57.4050103@cox.net>
Message-ID: <926086.30707.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Let's pursue a legal thought experiment: 

Ms. Soto was in the bike lane, but bicycling instead of jogging. Same time, same evidently somnolent motorist, same outcome. Now all of us suddenly concur that the motorist is 100% responsible for her death. Why should we be so much easier on the real-world motorist simply because the victim happened to be jogging instead of cycling?

A motorist's prime directive is to avoid collisions and to "stay between the lines." Had Ms. Soto been walking or jogging in the main travel lane, I would readily accept the contributory negligence argument, but she was reportedly using what is legally supposed to be a safe haven for nonmotorized road users.

By the way, I do not think the city should be held responsible under either scenario -- to me, this is a crystal-clear case of motorist negligence. The road is not inherently dangerous, and neither is the act of jogging or cycling in the bike lane, but certain motorist behaviors clearly are.

Abulifia <abulifia1 at cox.net> wrote: I have to believe that running westbound on the eastbound side of the 
parkway distracted with an iPod most likely had something to do with 
it.  That particular section of Bake Parkway and North Pointe Drive in 
Lake Forest is always bad.   And at 6a.m. on a Sunday, it's no 
different.  I don't have the State Vehicle Code section at the moment, 
but regardless of personal opinions on the level of softness the street 
provides vs the sidewalk, the law is the law, and the Handbook clearly 
states joggers don't belong in the bike lane.  And you can bet the farm 
that the law will factor mightily into any lawsuits filed by Ms. Soto's 
heirs.  The city of Lake Forest will not just forgive that she was in 
the wrong and was killed as a result.  The driver may have been 
negligent, but she shouldn't have been running in the bike lane and that 
makes her comparatively negligent.  Translation = very little settlement 
money.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/78eb260e/attachment.html 

From execdir at sdcbc.org  Thu Mar  6 11:55:36 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:55:36 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Masters Athlete includes San Diego in top 10 triathlon
	communities
Message-ID: <006201c87faa$e76fc990$b64f5cb0$@org>

Masters Athlete Names Top 10 Triathlon Communities in North America

03.04.08 
Orlando, FL 

Masters Athlete, the magazine geared toward active, affluent adults 30 and
older who live for the thrill of competition, has published its list of the
top 10 places for Masters triathletes to live. 

Boulder, Colo., was named the No. 1 place in the U.S. for Masters
triathletes to live, train and compete. 

"The Masters Athlete editorial board evaluated the towns based on the
quality of climate/terrain, training facilities and events and the number of
local triathletes," said Masters Athlete editor, Sean Callahan. "No town was
perfect, but Boulder almost is. It received 19.5 stars out of a possible
20." 

The list appears within the article, "Tops in Triathlon," which features an
in-depth profile of each of the 10 towns and is published in Masters
Athlete's March-April 2008 issue. 

The top 10 triathlon communities in North America are: 

1. Boulder, Colo. 

2. San Luis Obispo, Calif. 

3. San Diego, Calif. 

4. Austin, Texas 

5. Tucson, Ariz. 

6. Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 

7. Twin Cities, Minn. 

8. Clermont, Fla. 

9. Lake Placid, N.Y. 

10. Chicago, Ill. 

Masters Athlete can be found at numerous newsstands, independent retailers
and specialty outlets, as well as major bookstores, sporting goods chains
and airports throughout North America. To subscribe to Masters Athlete,
visit Masters-Athlete.com. 

About Masters Athlete 

Founded in 2004, Masters Athlete covers serious Masters athletics for people
30 and over and has a circulation of 50,000. Masters Athlete and its Web
site Masters-Athlete.com and social networking Web site GeezerJock.com are a
part of Turnstile Publishing Company. 

About Turnstile Publishing Company 

Turnstile Publishing Company is one of the nation's leading publishing
companies, specializing in high-end publications for active and affluent
audiences and is the parent corporation of such publications as Golfweek,
Fish & Fly, Art Calendar and "TurfNet Monthly;" and the Web sites
TurfNet.com, FishAndFlyMagazine.com, ArtCalendar.com, GolfweekHomes.com and
Golfweek.com, which features golf's first online television network,
GolfweekTV. Turnstile Publishing Company is also the parent corporation of
the social networking Web sites FishAndFlySpace.com and ArtScuttlebutt.com.
Founded in 1990, Turnstile Publishing Company is headquartered in Orlando,
Fla., and is also affiliated with Skyhorse Publishing. 

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/05950b15/attachment.html 

From trevorspoke at cox.net  Thu Mar  6 13:01:50 2008
From: trevorspoke at cox.net (trevorspoke at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:01:50 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <47CF51D0.4000001@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20080306130150.HTHU1.94329.imail@fed1rmwml06>

> http://www.ocregister.com/news/bake-parkway-1991108

In California, at least, the law is that peds must use any suitable adjacent pedestrian facility. Most joggers would reasonably be expected to agree with each other that the concrete sidewalk is not suitable for jogging.

The jogger was proceeding in the proper direction, facing vehicular traffic. In California, peds in the bike lane must yield to all vehicular traffic (for example, cyclists). Being in a bike lane, where the motorist is not allowed to drive, the ped is forgiven for not yielding to the motorist by getting out of the roadway.

I hate the use of the word "veer" in news articles, because mostly it is used as a synonym for "drifted" when in fact it is a much more abrupt change of position. However, a ped facing motor traffic should be able to hop onto the curb before being run over, I'd think, unless the driver actually did perform an extreme and sudden swerve.

-- Trevor



From abulifia1 at cox.net  Thu Mar  6 13:37:50 2008
From: abulifia1 at cox.net (A.A. Abulifia)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:37:50 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <20080306130150.HTHU1.94329.imail@fed1rmwml06>
Message-ID: <20080306133750.N1XQB.83913.imail@fed1rmwml20>

CVC ?21966 states in pertinant part: 

No pedestrian shall proceed along a bicycle path or lane where there is an adjacent adequate pedestrian facility.

There are sidewalks on both sides of the Bake Parkway.   According the newspaper item, clearly, the ped was in the wrong.   She was running in the bike lane when she should have been on the adjacent sidewalk.  Regardless of whether or not she preferred the "soft" macadam.  Regardless of how beneficial joggers believe macadam to be, the ped in this story was comparatively negligent.   End of story.



---- trevorspoke at cox.net wrote: 
> > http://www.ocregister.com/news/bake-parkway-1991108
> 
> In California, at least, the law is that peds must use any suitable adjacent pedestrian facility. Most joggers would reasonably be expected to agree with each other that the concrete sidewalk is not suitable for jogging.
> 
> The jogger was proceeding in the proper direction, facing vehicular traffic. In California, peds in the bike lane must yield to all vehicular traffic (for example, cyclists). Being in a bike lane, where the motorist is not allowed to drive, the ped is forgiven for not yielding to the motorist by getting out of the roadway.
> 
> I hate the use of the word "veer" in news articles, because mostly it is used as a synonym for "drifted" when in fact it is a much more abrupt change of position. However, a ped facing motor traffic should be able to hop onto the curb before being run over, I'd think, unless the driver actually did perform an extreme and sudden swerve.
> 
> -- Trevor
> 
> 


From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar  6 13:48:43 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:48:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <20080306133750.N1XQB.83913.imail@fed1rmwml20>
Message-ID: <678893.68383.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thought experiment #2: A bicyclist is illegally, but cautiously, slowly, and courteously, using a sidewalk. He/she and a nearby pedestrian are both killed when an errant motor vehicle jumps a curb. Is the motorist somehow less responsible for the cyclist's death than for the pedestrian's?

"A.A. Abulifia" <abulifia1 at cox.net> wrote: CVC ???21966 states in pertinant part: 

No pedestrian shall proceed along a bicycle path or lane where there is an adjacent adequate pedestrian facility.

There are sidewalks on both sides of the Bake Parkway.   According the newspaper item, clearly, the ped was in the wrong.   She was running in the bike lane when she should have been on the adjacent sidewalk.  Regardless of whether or not she preferred the "soft" macadam.  Regardless of how beneficial joggers believe macadam to be, the ped in this story was comparatively negligent.   End of story.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/72f0e309/attachment.html 

From execdir at sdcbc.org  Thu Mar  6 13:49:32 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:49:32 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Volunteer night Wednesday, March 12th
Message-ID: <00cd01c87fba$d0f438d0$72dcaa70$@org>

Yes, it's that time again! Volunteer night will be Wednesday, March 12th,
6:30 to 8:30 p.m. at the downtown office, 740 13th St, Suite 220. We'll have
food, drinks, and letters to fold, along with other fun stuff to do, plus
the usual scoop on what's REALLY going on in the San Diego bike world, so
don't miss it!

Hope to see you there.

Kathy

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/f76d5b73/attachment.html 

From serge at issakov.org  Thu Mar  6 13:58:01 2008
From: serge at issakov.org (Serge Issakov)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:58:01 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <20080306130150.HTHU1.94329.imail@fed1rmwml06>
References: <47CF51D0.4000001@cox.net>
	<20080306130150.HTHU1.94329.imail@fed1rmwml06>
Message-ID: <69ec985b0803061058l7b32494ch2210bc16f41e4fe@mail.gmail.com>

Good points, Trevor.  Also, if either the jogger or the motorist (or both)
was paying less attention to what was on the other side of the bike lane
stripe because they subconsciously assumed that the stripe would do what it
normally does - keep separated lines of traffic separated - then they would
be paying more attention if the bike lane stripe had not been there, and
perhaps yet another bike lane tragedy (which easily could have involved a
cyclist) could have been avoided.

I believe the concept of shared
space<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space>pioneered by Hans
Monderman applies here:

(more below)

> *Shared space* is a term used to describe an approach to the design,
> management and maintenance of public spaces<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_space>which reduces the adverse effects of conventional traffic
> engineering <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_engineering>. The shared
> space approach is based on the observation that individuals' behaviour<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_behavior>in
> traffic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic> is more positively affected
> by the built environment <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Built_environment>of the public space than it is by conventional traffic
> control devices<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Signs_and_Signals>(signals, signs, road markings, etc.) and
> regulations <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_the_road>.[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space#_note-0>This approach is considered to have been pioneered by Hans
> Monderman <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Monderman>.[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space#_note-1>
>
The philosophy
>
> Safety, congestion, economic vitality and community severance can be
> effectively tackled in streets and other public spaces if they are designed
> and managed to allow traffic to be fully integrated with other human
> activity, not separated from it. A major characteristic of a street designed
> to this philosophy is the absence of traditional road markings, signs,
> traffic signals and the distinction between "road" and "pavement<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidewalk>".
> User behaviour becomes influenced and controlled by natural human
> interactions rather than by artificial regulation.
>
There is a tradeoff between traffic throughput and the slower speeds/lesser
throughput implied by shared space, so I'm not a proponent of removing all
stripes, signs and pavement (Wade, to answer your question from a few days
ago: I think fog lines and shoulder stripes have their purpose too - but I'm
wary of riding to the right of them just as I'm wary of riding to the right
of a bike lane stripe), but in the case of bike lane stripes I think
bicyclists (and joggers) are much better off if the outside lane is one big
attention-enhancing "shared space" (a.k.a. Wide Outside Lane, or WOL) rather
than the attention-inhibiting "stripe separated space" (a.k.a. bike lane).
The relatively minor reduction in throughput (caused by motorists perhaps
having to slow a bit because they're being more careful due to the lack of
separating stripe) is a valuable tradeoff, for the increased attention,
lower speed differentials and better safety.

These tragedies are practically unheard of in shared space WOLs, and are all
too common in bike lanes.  I believe this is because everyone (motorists,
bicyclists, peds and joggers) pays more attention in shared space WOLs, and
less attention around bike lanes, and every time yet another person dies in
a bike lane from yet another "inadvertent drift" into an
*unnoticed*occupant of the bike lane, I am only more convinced that
bike lanes cause
create more harm than good for cyclists.

Serge


On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:01 AM, <trevorspoke at cox.net> wrote:

> > http://www.ocregister.com/news/bake-parkway-1991108
>
> In California, at least, the law is that peds must use any suitable
> adjacent pedestrian facility. Most joggers would reasonably be expected to
> agree with each other that the concrete sidewalk is not suitable for
> jogging.
>
> The jogger was proceeding in the proper direction, facing vehicular
> traffic. In California, peds in the bike lane must yield to all vehicular
> traffic (for example, cyclists). Being in a bike lane, where the motorist is
> not allowed to drive, the ped is forgiven for not yielding to the motorist
> by getting out of the roadway.
>
> I hate the use of the word "veer" in news articles, because mostly it is
> used as a synonym for "drifted" when in fact it is a much more abrupt change
> of position. However, a ped facing motor traffic should be able to hop onto
> the curb before being run over, I'd think, unless the driver actually did
> perform an extreme and sudden swerve.
>
> -- Trevor
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as serge at issakov.org
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
> postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>



-- 
NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/fe6a40ad/attachment.html 

From execdir at sdcbc.org  Thu Mar  6 14:14:29 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 11:14:29 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <69ec985b0803061058l7b32494ch2210bc16f41e4fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47CF51D0.4000001@cox.net>	<20080306130150.HTHU1.94329.imail@fed1rmwml06>
	<69ec985b0803061058l7b32494ch2210bc16f41e4fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00f801c87fbe$4d410640$e7c312c0$@org>

Serge, I agree with you about the shared space argument, mostly. 

But I believe that the places that Monderman proposed using the shared space
design ideas are places that we wouldn't put a bike lane, anyway - dense,
residential or commercial spaces with a lot of different street uses. The
shared space paradigm only works in places that truly have the potential for
a large mode share for bicycle and pedestrian traffic and where auto traffic
is expected to be slow, not on thoroughfares without fronting uses. 

Bake Parkway right now is a wide, 4 lane arterial with NO fronting uses on
the street - more like a freeway than like a residential street. I think it
would be a bad idea to use a shared space design on a street like that
without changing the way the land is used along the street. 

Kathy

 

From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org [mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]
On Behalf Of Serge Issakov
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:58 AM
To: trevorspoke at cox.net
Cc: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF

 

Good points, Trevor.  Also, if either the jogger or the motorist (or both)
was paying less attention to what was on the other side of the bike lane
stripe because they subconsciously assumed that the stripe would do what it
normally does - keep separated lines of traffic separated - then they would
be paying more attention if the bike lane stripe had not been there, and
perhaps yet another bike lane tragedy (which easily could have involved a
cyclist) could have been avoided.

I believe the concept of shared space
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space>  pioneered by Hans Monderman
applies here:

(more below)

Shared space is a term used to describe an approach to the design,
management and maintenance of public spaces
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_space>  which reduces the adverse
effects of conventional traffic engineering
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_engineering> . The shared space
approach is based on the observation that individuals' behaviour
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_behavior>  in traffic
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic>  is more positively affected by the
built environment <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Built_environment>  of the
public space than it is by conventional traffic
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Road_Signs_and_Signals>
control devices (signals, signs, road markings, etc.) and regulations
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_the_road> .[1]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space#_note-0>  This approach is
considered to have been pioneered by Hans Monderman
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Monderman> .[2]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space#_note-1> 


The philosophy


Safety, congestion, economic vitality and community severance can be
effectively tackled in streets and other public spaces if they are designed
and managed to allow traffic to be fully integrated with other human
activity, not separated from it. A major characteristic of a street designed
to this philosophy is the absence of traditional road markings, signs,
traffic signals and the distinction between "road" and "pavement
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidewalk> ". User behaviour becomes influenced
and controlled by natural human interactions rather than by artificial
regulation.

There is a tradeoff between traffic throughput and the slower speeds/lesser
throughput implied by shared space, so I'm not a proponent of removing all
stripes, signs and pavement (Wade, to answer your question from a few days
ago: I think fog lines and shoulder stripes have their purpose too - but I'm
wary of riding to the right of them just as I'm wary of riding to the right
of a bike lane stripe), but in the case of bike lane stripes I think
bicyclists (and joggers) are much better off if the outside lane is one big
attention-enhancing "shared space" (a.k.a. Wide Outside Lane, or WOL) rather
than the attention-inhibiting "stripe separated space" (a.k.a. bike lane).
The relatively minor reduction in throughput (caused by motorists perhaps
having to slow a bit because they're being more careful due to the lack of
separating stripe) is a valuable tradeoff, for the increased attention,
lower speed differentials and better safety.

These tragedies are practically unheard of in shared space WOLs, and are all
too common in bike lanes.  I believe this is because everyone (motorists,
bicyclists, peds and joggers) pays more attention in shared space WOLs, and
less attention around bike lanes, and every time yet another person dies in
a bike lane from yet another "inadvertent drift" into an unnoticed occupant
of the bike lane, I am only more convinced that bike lanes cause create more
harm than good for cyclists.

Serge



On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:01 AM, <trevorspoke at cox.net> wrote:

> http://www.ocregister.com/news/bake-parkway-1991108

In California, at least, the law is that peds must use any suitable adjacent
pedestrian facility. Most joggers would reasonably be expected to agree with
each other that the concrete sidewalk is not suitable for jogging.

The jogger was proceeding in the proper direction, facing vehicular traffic.
In California, peds in the bike lane must yield to all vehicular traffic
(for example, cyclists). Being in a bike lane, where the motorist is not
allowed to drive, the ped is forgiven for not yielding to the motorist by
getting out of the roadway.

I hate the use of the word "veer" in news articles, because mostly it is
used as a synonym for "drifted" when in fact it is a much more abrupt change
of position. However, a ped facing motor traffic should be able to hop onto
the curb before being run over, I'd think, unless the driver actually did
perform an extreme and sudden swerve.

-- Trevor



_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as serge at issakov.org
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
postmaster at stickman-computing.org




-- 
NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved. 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/0925fb90/attachment-0001.html 

From serge at issakov.org  Thu Mar  6 15:42:49 2008
From: serge at issakov.org (Serge Issakov)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:42:49 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <00f801c87fbe$4d410640$e7c312c0$@org>
References: <47CF51D0.4000001@cox.net>
	<20080306130150.HTHU1.94329.imail@fed1rmwml06>
	<69ec985b0803061058l7b32494ch2210bc16f41e4fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<00f801c87fbe$4d410640$e7c312c0$@org>
Message-ID: <69ec985b0803061242w7c5fd501pe9c825845683a019@mail.gmail.com>

Hi  Kathy,

Well, let's see if we can change that "mostly" to "totally" ;)

I'm not suggesting we put in a whole hog shared space design on this street.

I'm suggesting we apply some of the principles underlying the shared space
philosophy (i.e., how human attention is inhibited by situations in which
ROW is clear) to the outside edge of  roads to explain why striped bike
lanes are more problematic (in terms of clarifying ROW at the cost of
inhibiting motorist and cyclist attention and care) than wide outside
lanes.  In other words, I'm suggesting that in terms of overtaking collision
risk, cyclists (and joggers) are probably safer in a shared space WOL than
in a stripe separated bike lane.

>From the Wikipedia article:

Another source attributes the following to Monderman: "When you don't
> exactly know who has right of way, you tend to seek eye contact with other
> road users... You automatically reduce your speed, you have contact with
> other people and you take greater care."[5]
>

So in a WOL where the motorist doesn't exactly know where he has right of
way relative to the cyclist up ahead who is occupying some of his lane, it
follow that he tends to take notice, reduce speed, adjust position and
generally take care when passing, while the motorist with an empty lane in
front of him is likely to give less or even no attention to the cyclist up
ahead in the adjacent bike lane separated from the motorist's intended line
of travel by a stripe that clearly demarcates who has ROW where.

Referring to this attention-inhibiting effect of the ROW clarifying stripe
as the "shared space effect", the logic goes something like this:

1) A *noticed* cyclist (or jogger) up ahead is likely to inhibit a motorist
from choosing to attend to a distraction until he passes the cyclist.
2) Because of the shared space effect, a cyclist up ahead in a bike lane is
more likely to be unnoticed than is a cyclist up ahead in a shared space
WOL.  This is probably the most controversial point, but is really just
piggy-backing on Monderman's shared space principle, as well as being
explained by the role of relevance in inattentional blindness.  People are
more likely to be inattentionally blind (the phenomena of looking at
something but not seeing/noticing it) to something that is perceived to be
irrelevant to them - and a cyclist up ahead in a motorist's lane is likely
to be perceived as more relevant than a cyclist up ahead in adjacent
stripe-separated space.
3) A bike lane occupied by an unnoticed cyclist has no more chance to
inhibit a motorist from choosing to attend to a distraction than has an
empty bike lane.
4) To a motorist who has not noticed the cyclist (or jogger) up ahead in the
bike lane, the bike lane is effectively empty, and is as tempting an area to
briefly drift into while the motorist is attending to a distraction as is a
truly unoccupied bike lane (I see briefly distracted motorists briefly drift
into bike lanes and shoulders like this all the time - thankfully they're
almost always unoccupied when that happens).

In short, the key to overtaking safety is to to prevent overtaking drivers
from choosing to attend to a distraction until they've passed you, but then
we have to grab their attention, and that's exactly what the bike lane
stripe inhibits from happening.  It might be helpful to remember that there
is no such thing as a purely inattentive driver.  That is, some drivers are
more distracted than others, but all drivers have to pay at least some
attention every few seconds just to stay on the road.  So the key when we're
up ahead is to grab their attention at least during one of their lucid
moments, and that's what the bike lane stripe inhibits us from achieving,
due to the shared space effect.

It should be noted that in the grand scheme of car-bike crashes overtaking
collisions are relatively rare, and much more attention should be given to
safety with respect to crossing movements.  But the problems created by bike
lanes with respect to crossing movements are less controversial, and my
point here is that if the basis for justifying bike lanes is overtaking
safety, I honestly think even there bike lanes cause more harm than good,
because according to the "shared space effect" the bike lane stripe works to
inhibit attention and care prior to and during overtaking.

Serge


On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Kathy Keehan <execdir at sdcbc.org> wrote:

> Serge, I agree with you about the shared space argument, mostly.
>
> But I believe that the places that Monderman proposed using the shared
space design ideas are places that we wouldn't put a bike lane, anyway ?
dense, residential or commercial spaces with a lot of different street uses.
The shared space paradigm only works in places that truly have the potential
for a large mode share for bicycle and pedestrian traffic and where auto
traffic is expected to be slow, not on thoroughfares without fronting uses.
>
> Bake Parkway right now is a wide, 4 lane arterial with NO fronting uses on
the street ? more like a freeway than like a residential street. I think it
would be a bad idea to use a shared space design on a street like that
without changing the way the land is used along the street.
>
> Kathy
>
>
>
>
> From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org [mailto:
sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org] On Behalf Of Serge Issakov
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:58 AM
> To: trevorspoke at cox.net
> Cc: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
> Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Good points, Trevor.  Also, if either the jogger or the motorist (or both)
was paying less attention to what was on the other side of the bike lane
stripe because they subconsciously assumed that the stripe would do what it
normally does - keep separated lines of traffic separated - then they would
be paying more attention if the bike lane stripe had not been there, and
perhaps yet another bike lane tragedy (which easily could have involved a
cyclist) could have been avoided.
>
> I believe the concept of shared space pioneered by Hans Monderman applies
here:
>
> (more below)
>
> Shared space is a term used to describe an approach to the design,
management and maintenance of public spaces which reduces the adverse
effects of conventional traffic engineering. The shared space approach is
based on the observation that individuals' behaviour in traffic is more
positively affected by the built environment of the public space than it is
by conventional traffic control devices (signals, signs, road markings,
etc.) and regulations.[1] This approach is considered to have been pioneered
by Hans Monderman.[2]
>
>
> The philosophy
>
> Safety, congestion, economic vitality and community severance can be
effectively tackled in streets and other public spaces if they are designed
and managed to allow traffic to be fully integrated with other human
activity, not separated from it. A major characteristic of a street designed
to this philosophy is the absence of traditional road markings, signs,
traffic signals and the distinction between "road" and "pavement". User
behaviour becomes influenced and controlled by natural human interactions
rather than by artificial regulation.
>
> There is a tradeoff between traffic throughput and the slower
speeds/lesser throughput implied by shared space, so I'm not a proponent of
removing all stripes, signs and pavement (Wade, to answer your question from
a few days ago: I think fog lines and shoulder stripes have their purpose
too - but I'm wary of riding to the right of them just as I'm wary of riding
to the right of a bike lane stripe), but in the case of bike lane stripes I
think bicyclists (and joggers) are much better off if the outside lane is
one big attention-enhancing "shared space" (a.k.a. Wide Outside Lane, or
WOL) rather than the attention-inhibiting "stripe separated space" (a.k.a.
bike lane).  The relatively minor reduction in throughput (caused by
motorists perhaps having to slow a bit because they're being more careful
due to the lack of separating stripe) is a valuable tradeoff, for the
increased attention, lower speed differentials and better safety.
>
> These tragedies are practically unheard of in shared space WOLs, and are
all too common in bike lanes.  I believe this is because everyone
(motorists, bicyclists, peds and joggers) pays more attention in shared
space WOLs, and less attention around bike lanes, and every time yet another
person dies in a bike lane from yet another "inadvertent drift" into an
unnoticed occupant of the bike lane, I am only more convinced that bike
lanes cause create more harm than good for cyclists.
>
> Serge
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:01 AM, <trevorspoke at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> > http://www.ocregister.com/news/bake-parkway-1991108
>
> In California, at least, the law is that peds must use any suitable
adjacent pedestrian facility. Most joggers would reasonably be expected to
agree with each other that the concrete sidewalk is not suitable for
jogging.
>
> The jogger was proceeding in the proper direction, facing vehicular
traffic. In California, peds in the bike lane must yield to all vehicular
traffic (for example, cyclists). Being in a bike lane, where the motorist is
not allowed to drive, the ped is forgiven for not yielding to the motorist
by getting out of the roadway.
>
> I hate the use of the word "veer" in news articles, because mostly it is
used as a synonym for "drifted" when in fact it is a much more abrupt change
of position. However, a ped facing motor traffic should be able to hop onto
the curb before being run over, I'd think, unless the driver actually did
perform an extreme and sudden swerve.
>
> -- Trevor
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as serge at issakov.org
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at
http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved.



-- 
NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/0b3f050a/attachment.html 

From execdir at sdcbc.org  Thu Mar  6 16:03:39 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:03:39 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] ZOIC fundraiser this Saturday, March 8th
Message-ID: <003101c87fcd$8d4d3650$a7e7a2f0$@org>

The folks at ZOIC asked me to pass this along ? looks like fun, and there
are a ton of raffle prizes, so if you are looking for something to do on
Saturday


Kathy

 

ZOIC Fundraiser for the Outdoor Outreach program this Saturday, March 8th. 


Hi Everyone,

We are getting excited for our big ride this Saturday! Raffle tickets for
$10 will be sold before and after the ride, and with all the prizes it looks
like everyone will go home with something. We will be leaving at 10 a.m.
sharp, so be there early and ready to go. The ride should last 1-1 1/2
hours, and the raffle will begin at 12 p.m. Kids are encouraged to join, as
we will have a kid's group, intermediate group, and expert group. If anybody
is willing to lead the expert ride, please contact me at ashley at zoic.com.

Directions to Penasquitos Canyon Parking Lot

>From North County:
5 South to 805 Split, merge onto 805 South
805 South exit to Mira Mesa Blvd
At end of off ramp veer right onto Sorrento Valley Rd
Follow Sorrento Valley rd to Sorrento Valley Blvd
Turn Right on Sorrento Valley Blvd
Continue on Sorrento Valley Blvd for ? to ? Mile
Penasquitos Parking lot is on the Right

>From South County via 805
805 North to Mira Mesa Blvd exit
Turn left at off ramp light and merge onto Sorrento Valley Rd.
Follow Sorrento Valley rd to Sorrento Valley Blvd
Turn Right on Sorrento Valley Blvd
Continue on Sorrento Valley Blvd for ? to ? Mile
Penasquitos Parking lot is on the Right

>From South County via 5
5 North to Sorrento Valley Rd Exit
At end of ramp, turn left on Roselle
Right onto Sorrento Valley Blvd
Continue on Sorrento Valley Blvd for ? to 1 Mile
Penasquitos Parking lot is on the Right

>From 15 Fwy
Exit Mira Mesa Blvd and head West
Follow Mira Mesa Blvd until it merges onto Sorrento Valley Road
Follow Sorrento Valley rd to Sorrento Valley Blvd
Turn Right on Sorrento Valley Blvd
Continue on Sorrento Valley Blvd for ? to ? Mile
Penasquitos Parking lot is on the Right

Here is an address of the nearest business, it's a bike shop ? mile from the
entrance, so if you google maps this address, it will put you ? mile from
the location.
4206 Sorrento Valley Blvd
San Diego, CA 92121

See you there!!!
-The ZOIC crew

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/4b523fa4/attachment-0001.html 

From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar  6 20:43:18 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 17:43:18 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <69ec985b0803061058l7b32494ch2210bc16f41e4fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFOEHGDBAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>

I stipulate, from the limited evidence provided, that the motorist fell
asleep at the wheel, rendering the white bike lane stripe irrelevant from
his perspective.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org
[mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]On Behalf Of Serge Issakov
  Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:58 AM
  To: trevorspoke at cox.net
  Cc: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
  Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF


  Good points, Trevor.  Also, if either the jogger or the motorist (or both)
was paying less attention to what was on the other side of the bike lane
stripe because they subconsciously assumed that the stripe would do what it
normally does - keep separated lines of traffic separated - then they would
be paying more attention if the bike lane stripe had not been there, and
perhaps yet another bike lane tragedy (which easily could have involved a
cyclist) could have been avoided.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/58020fdb/attachment.html 

From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar  6 21:02:10 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 18:02:10 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <69ec985b0803061058l7b32494ch2210bc16f41e4fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFMEHHDBAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>

Shared space is a great idea where traffic speeds are very low and can be
kept that way. I would not want to try this social experiment on Palomar
Airport Road or on the Orange County road in question. The increase in the
rate of rightward drifts coincides with increasing vehicle speeds,
increasing driver isolation in vehicle design, and increasing levels of
sleep deprivation among the general public.

John E.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org
[mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]On Behalf Of Serge Issakov
  Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:58 AM
  To: trevorspoke at cox.net
  Cc: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
  Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF


  Good points, Trevor.  Also, if either the jogger or the motorist (or both)
was paying less attention to what was on the other side of the bike lane
stripe because they subconsciously assumed that the stripe would do what it
normally does - keep separated lines of traffic separated - then they would
be paying more attention if the bike lane stripe had not been there, and
perhaps yet another bike lane tragedy (which easily could have involved a
cyclist) could have been avoided.

  I believe the concept of shared space pioneered by Hans Monderman applies
here:

  (more below)

    Shared space is a term used to describe an approach to the design,
management and maintenance of public spaces which reduces the adverse
effects of conventional traffic engineering. The shared space approach is
based on the observation that individuals' behaviour in traffic is more
positively affected by the built environment of the public space than it is
by conventional traffic control devices (signals, signs, road markings,
etc.) and regulations.[1] This approach is considered to have been pioneered
by Hans Monderman.[2]

    The philosophy
    Safety, congestion, economic vitality and community severance can be
effectively tackled in streets and other public spaces if they are designed
and managed to allow traffic to be fully integrated with other human
activity, not separated from it. A major characteristic of a street designed
to this philosophy is the absence of traditional road markings, signs,
traffic signals and the distinction between "road" and "pavement". User
behaviour becomes influenced and controlled by natural human interactions
rather than by artificial regulation.

  There is a tradeoff between traffic throughput and the slower
speeds/lesser throughput implied by shared space, so I'm not a proponent of
removing all stripes, signs and pavement (Wade, to answer your question from
a few days ago: I think fog lines and shoulder stripes have their purpose
too - but I'm wary of riding to the right of them just as I'm wary of riding
to the right of a bike lane stripe), but in the case of bike lane stripes I
think bicyclists (and joggers) are much better off if the outside lane is
one big attention-enhancing "shared space" (a.k.a. Wide Outside Lane, or
WOL) rather than the attention-inhibiting "stripe separated space" (a.k.a.
bike lane).  The relatively minor reduction in throughput (caused by
motorists perhaps having to slow a bit because they're being more careful
due to the lack of separating stripe) is a valuable tradeoff, for the
increased attention, lower speed differentials and better safety.

  These tragedies are practically unheard of in shared space WOLs, and are
all too common in bike lanes.  I believe this is because everyone
(motorists, bicyclists, peds and joggers) pays more attention in shared
space WOLs, and less attention around bike lanes, and every time yet another
person dies in a bike lane from yet another "inadvertent drift" into an
unnoticed occupant of the bike lane, I am only more convinced that bike
lanes cause create more harm than good for cyclists.

  Serge

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080306/0ba18ea2/attachment.html 

From cleath at j9k.org  Fri Mar  7 13:37:39 2008
From: cleath at j9k.org (Colin Leath)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:37:39 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Any objections to having a gmane archive of the SDCBC list?
Message-ID: <c7b024280803071037vf550382nb5e99fceec61b400@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Gmane is a mailing list archive.
>
> Any public mailing list can be carried by Gmane.
>
> For more information about the project, read the about<http://gmane.org/about.php>page.
>
The advantages in doing this: many other options for how to read the list,
including by rss feed.

If there are no objections to this, I'll go ahead and request that gmane
archive the SDCBC list!

For an example of what will happen once this is done:
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.politics.activism.carfree-network
(a list I helped get on gmain in 2003).

My secret reason for doing this:

I'll take the rss feed of the list produced by gmane and filter the posts to
create a new feed with just Kathy Keehan's posts, and then display this new
feed at:
http://carfrees.blogspot.com/

I suppose the ultimate goal is to have SDCBC produce both an iCal feed of
events and a feed of news, but until then, this will make it easier to
follow what is happening at SDCBC.

peace,
Colin


-- 
Contribute to the blogs, calendars, maps, photos, videos & links at
SD/TJ Design, Plant, Harvest:
nourishing our shared space, caring for the commons.
http://sdtjdph.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080307/0db0b32b/attachment.html 

From serge at issakov.org  Fri Mar  7 15:26:35 2008
From: serge at issakov.org (Serge Issakov)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:26:35 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
In-Reply-To: <HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFMEHHDBAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>
References: <69ec985b0803061058l7b32494ch2210bc16f41e4fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFMEHHDBAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <69ec985b0803071226y73ff556dk9ea299c4049602ae@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 6:02 PM, John Eldon <j.eldon at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>  Shared space is a great idea where traffic speeds are very low and can be
> kept that way. I would not want to try this social experiment on Palomar
> Airport Road or on the Orange County road in question. The increase in the
> rate of rightward drifts coincides with increasing vehicle speeds,
> increasing driver isolation in vehicle design, and increasing levels of
> sleep deprivation among the general public.
>
> John E.
>


Hi John,

I understand what you're saying, but you're assuming that on high speed
arterials the effect the bike lane stripe has on inhibiting motorists from
crossing into the separated space on the other side of the stripe is greater
than the effect a cyclist up ahead in the shared space of the motorist's
lane has on being noticed and so not being hit by the motorist.  It seems to
me the opposite is true: the effect a cyclist up ahead in the shared space
of the motorist's lane has on being noticed and so not being hit by the
motorist is greater than the effect that the bike lane stripe has on
inhibiting motorists from crossing the stripe, whether the bike lane is
occupied by a cyclist or not, because of the significant role the
attention-inhibiting stripe apparently plays in making the cyclist less
likely to be noticed, coupled with the fact that the stripe is far from
perfect in keeping motorists from drifting across it.  Because the stripe is
far from perfect, what's ultimately important in keeping the cyclist from
being hit is for the cyclist to be noticed, and that's exactly what the
stripe inhibits.

Your position is intuitive and quite popular, but it's not supported by any
evidence I've been able to find.  To be sure, the stripe does
*encourage*motorists to keep left of the stripe - whether a cyclist is
present or not;
noticed or not - the unswept debris that collects in bike lanes is ample
evidence of that.  But that's not the whole story.  The whole point of the
shared space philosophy is that the flip side of the right-of-way clarity
provided by the stripe is that it also reduces driver attention and care,
and that effect needs to be accounted for as well.

Since I've been paying attention to this issue starting a few year ago, I
have read or heard about far too many incidents of non-intersection
inadvertent drifts into unnoticed cyclists (and joggers) in bike lanes or
striped shoulders, and just one incident (rural Arizona with narrow lanes
and rolling hills) in which a cyclist in a shared space outside lane was hit
by an overtaking motorist.  That doesn't mean there weren't some that I
didn't hear or read about; I'm sure there were.  So it's not definitive
evidence, but from what I can tell it sure seems that overtaking collisions
in shared space lanes are hit-by-an-asteroid rare, while drifts into
cyclists (and joggers) in bike lanes and striped shoulders are all too
common.  In theory we know that this could be explained by cyclists using
roads with bike lanes much more than roads without bike lanes, but we know
that's not true in practice (there are just too many roads without bike
lanes; roads used by cyclists).  The attention-inhibiting effect of the
stripe is the only practical explanation I have been able to find.

And it's not a social experiment that needs to be tried.  The vast majority
of roads in America (including in San Diego) already do not have bike lanes,
and yet the incidence of overtaking collisions is practically unheard of on
such roads in which the entire outside lane is shared space, especially if
you don't count the crashes in which the cyclist is riding at night without
proper lights/reflectors, the cyclist swerves into the motorist's path, or
the motorist fell asleep.

But even in the incidents in which the motorist dozes and hits the cyclist,
he must be dozing off and drifting just before he reaches the cyclist (if he
had dozed and drifted earlier, presumably he would have crashed then).  So
if there is anything the cyclist can do to delay the dozing by just a few
more critical seconds, it is to grab the motorist's attention before he is
otherwise about to close his eyes for the final time, and, again, according
to the shared space philosophy, grabbing the motorist's attention is exactly
what is inhibited by ROW-clarifying attention/care-inhibiting stripes.

Here's a slightly different way to look at it.  I think we want overtaking
motorists to be a little bit stressed by our presence in the road up ahead,
because it's that little bit of stress that causes them to take notice of
our presence, slow down, adjust laterally, not get distracted, drift or fall
asleep.  That *bit o' stress* is what causes them to pass us consciously,
conscientiously, carefully and safely.   Isn't that what we want?   The bike
lane stripe works against us because it alleviates the very *bit o'
stress*that would otherwise contribute to our safety.

Serge

NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080307/0398067d/attachment-0001.html 

From wondernerd at juno.com  Fri Mar  7 17:31:04 2008
From: wondernerd at juno.com (Frank  Paiano)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 22:31:04 GMT
Subject: [SDCBC] Joggers in the Bike Lane - WTF
Message-ID: <20080307.143104.6365.0@webmail30.vgs.untd.com>

"Very little settlement money," you say?
Did you finish the article?  Lawyers for two other joggers in Orange County hit by a car argued that the bike lane was too wide and the driver mistook the bike lane for a car lane.  The award was $49 million.

-- Abulifia <abulifia1 at cox.net> wrote:
I have to believe that running westbound on the eastbound side of the 
parkway distracted with an iPod most likely had something to do with 
it.  That particular section of Bake Parkway and North Pointe Drive in 
Lake Forest is always bad.   And at 6a.m. on a Sunday, it's no 
different.  I don't have the State Vehicle Code section at the moment, 
but regardless of personal opinions on the level of softness the street 
provides vs the sidewalk, the law is the law, and the Handbook clearly 
states joggers don't belong in the bike lane.  And you can bet the farm 
that the law will factor mightily into any lawsuits filed by Ms. Soto's 
heirs.  The city of Lake Forest will not just forgive that she was in 
the wrong and was killed as a result.  The driver may have been 
negligent, but she shouldn't have been running in the bike lane and that 
makes her comparatively negligent.  Translation = very little settlement 
money.




John Eldon wrote:
> I get as frustrated by groups of walkers or joggers hogging the bike 
> lane as much as the rest of you, but mandatory sidepath laws for 
> pedestrians are irrelevant to this particular case. Had Ms. Soto been 
> cycling instead of jogging, the consequences would probably not have 
> changed much, if at all. The motorist was grossly negligent and caused 
> an easily preventable death.
>
> By the way, I do understand the appeal of jogging in the bike lane 
> instead of on the sidewalk -- macadam is a slightly more forgiving 
> surface than concrete, and pedestrians have even worse right-hook and 
> other intersection movement conflict problems than cyclists do. When I 
> walk or jog in a bike lane, I cower against the curb or parked cars to 
> give cyclists the right-of-way, just as I defer to pedestrians on 
> those rare occasions I resort to using a short stretch of sidewalk 
> while cycling.
>
_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as wondernerd at juno.com
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org


_____________________________________________________________
Click for free info on online masters degrees and make up to $150K/ year
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iifnHX8OuWBupL2aCcFgj4inkdT7MR0ylO3yMdw8b7O4AB8r6/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080307/525b6164/attachment.html 

From camping.elliott at gmail.com  Fri Mar  7 19:14:12 2008
From: camping.elliott at gmail.com (Mike Elliott)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:14:12 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Unfamiliar territory opens up this Sunday
Message-ID: <47D1DA54.7030802@gmail.com>

If all goes well, the new North County Transit Center's Sprinter train 
[1] which connects Oceanside to Escondido (with stops in Vista and San 
Marcos) will start running this Sunday. For my wife and me, Escondido is 
terra incognita vis-?-vis bicycling as there is not a terribly easy 
route to get there from here in Carlsbad, so we are excited about the 
possibility of hopping onto one of those every half-hour trains with our 
bikes [2] and doing some riding out there this spring. The train route 
terminates at the Escondido Transit Center. Where can we find a list of 
nice bike rides that start near there? And more importantly, where are 
the good places to grab a good breakfast or brunch in that neck of the 
woods?

===================
1. http://gonctd.com/sprinter_intro.htm

2. "Bikes, wheelchairs and strollers are welcome on the SPRINTER. 
Passengers will enter the train car through doors marked with a bicycle, 
wheelchair or stroller emblem. Bikes must not exceed six feet in 
horizontal length, must not have any protrusions and must not block 
seats, aisles, doorways or exits. Please bring your own straps or bungee 
cords to secure your bicycle." http://gonctd.com/sprinter_howtoride.htm
-- 

Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
Carlsbad

From cziegler at sandiego.edu  Fri Mar  7 20:15:23 2008
From: cziegler at sandiego.edu (cziegler at sandiego.edu)
Date: Fri,  7 Mar 2008 17:15:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SDCBC] Unfamiliar territory opens up this Sunday
Message-ID: <20080307171523.LDC34430@ms1.sandiego.edu>

Check out the rides we do with Recyclers in Escondido.  www.sdrecyclers.org
Carole


---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:14:12 -0800
>From: Mike Elliott <camping.elliott at gmail.com>  
>Subject: [SDCBC] Unfamiliar territory opens up this Sunday  
>To: "'Sdcbc'" <sdcbc at bikesandiego.org>
>
>If all goes well, the new North County Transit Center's Sprinter train 
>[1] which connects Oceanside to Escondido (with stops in Vista and San 
>Marcos) will start running this Sunday. For my wife and me, Escondido is 
>terra incognita vis-?-vis bicycling as there is not a terribly easy 
>route to get there from here in Carlsbad, so we are excited about the 
>possibility of hopping onto one of those every half-hour trains with our 
>bikes [2] and doing some riding out there this spring. The train route 
>terminates at the Escondido Transit Center. Where can we find a list of 
>nice bike rides that start near there? And more importantly, where are 
>the good places to grab a good breakfast or brunch in that neck of the 
>woods?
>
>===================
>1. http://gonctd.com/sprinter_intro.htm
>
>2. "Bikes, wheelchairs and strollers are welcome on the SPRINTER. 
>Passengers will enter the train car through doors marked with a bicycle, 
>wheelchair or stroller emblem. Bikes must not exceed six feet in 
>horizontal length, must not have any protrusions and must not block 
>seats, aisles, doorways or exits. Please bring your own straps or bungee 
>cords to secure your bicycle." http://gonctd.com/sprinter_howtoride.htm
>-- 
>
>Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>Carlsbad
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as cziegler at sandiego.edu
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

From cleath at j9k.org  Fri Mar  7 21:09:04 2008
From: cleath at j9k.org (Colin Leath)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 18:09:04 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] March 7, 2008 Weekly Carfree SD Urban Design Newsletter
Message-ID: <c7b024280803071809i5d439defke28b8d9a18c2e4fd@mail.gmail.com>

[SDCBC: I just found the announce
list!<http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc-announce/>In the
future I may nab some events from it. Here's the Urban section of a
newsletter I'm testing creating. Peace, Colin]

I'm testing out the idea of creating a weekly newsletter that I post to SD/TJ
Design, Plant, Harvest <http://sdtjdph.blogspot.com/>. The newsletter will
have sections that I will email out separately to several email lists. I'll
need volunteers to help keep this going by contributing and also to help
post if I'm not near a computer that week. I have started a separate
blog<http://sdtjdphwrap.blogspot.com/>to be used for contributing to
the newsletter and preparing the weekly
newsletter. Basically, email your contributions to sdtjdph.wrap at
blogger.com, following the format I've used below. The newsletter has its own
feed <http://feeds.feedburner.com/sdtjdphwrap>, and you also can subscribe
to it by email<http://www.feedburner.com/fb/a/emailverifySubmit?feedId=1763204>.
If any errors are discovered after posting, they will be corrected in the
version at SDTJDPH<http://sdtjdph.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-7-2008-weekly-wrap-sdtjdph.html>
.

*Contents*

   - Urban Design (for a
permaculture)<http://sdtjdph.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-7-2008-weekly-wrap-sdtjdph.html#urban>

Item types

   - Event, News, Resource

Item categories

   - Food, Urban, Collaboration

Locations

   - Neighborhoods <http://www.sandiego.gov/planning/community/profiles/>

***Urban Design (for a permaculture)*

   - Events
      - Uptown SD / Hillcrest | Event | Urban | Bus Riders Union Rally
      and Film, Thu Mar 20 630pm at the Joyce Beers
Center<http://sdtjdphevents.blogspot.com/2008/03/bus-riders-union-rally-and-film-march.html>
      - Los Angeles | Event | Urban | Section of Wilshire Blvd Carfree
      for Earth Day, Tue Apr 22
      <http://www.wilshirecenter.com/earthday/>
      - SD | Event | Urban | San Diego River Days May 10-18 (link is
      to the page for the 2005
event)<http://www.sandiegoriver.org/SanDiegoRiverDay.html>
   - News
      - LA | News | Urban | Southern California set the nation on the
      path to bicycling bliss, then detoured. But smogville could
still become a
      velotopia (Sierra Club
Magazine)<http://carfreeusa.blogspot.com/2008/03/bikeways-history-and-future.html>
      - SD | News | Urban | 'Showers to Flowers' (greywater) Struggles
      for Foothold (Voice of San
Diego)<http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2008/03/05/news/02graywater030508.txt>
      - SD | News | Urban | Buddhist monastery adds a solar system to
      harmonious ways
(SDUT)<http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20080306-9999-1mc6monast.html>
      - SD | News | Urban | A Brief History of Planning in San Diego
      (SDUT) <http://planetizen.com/node/29977>
      - SD | News | Urban | San Diego IRC hiring Transportation
      Coordinator<http://colinleath.googlepages.com/irc.transportation.coordinator.htm>
      - Resources
      - LA | Resource | Urban | LA Streetsblog<http://la.streetsblog.org/>
      - SD | Resource | Urban | Wikipedia on Mike
Davis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Davis_%28scholar%29>
      - Global | Resource | Urban | Energy Justice
Network<http://www.energyjustice.net/>
      - Global | Resource | Urban | Fossil Fools
Day<http://risingtide.org.uk/node/241>
      - London / Global | Resource | Urban | Plane Stupid - bringing
      the aviation industry back down to earth!<http://www.planestupid.com/>
      - Global | Resource | Urban | Low Fly Zone - Pledge to be free
      from flying <http://lowflyzone.org/>
      - NY/NJ/CT | Resource | Urban | Tri-State Transportation
      Campaign (the LA Streetsblogger worked on
this)<http://tstc.org/about.html>
      - SD | Resource | Urban | SoCal Peace: SD County (+ SoCal)
      Coalition for Peaceful Cities <http://socalpeace.blogspot.com/>
      - SD | Resource | Urban | Carfree SD blog<http://carfrees.blogspot.com/>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080307/8c131240/attachment.html 

From tlettington at san.rr.com  Fri Mar  7 21:28:34 2008
From: tlettington at san.rr.com (Tom Lettington)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 18:28:34 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] March 7, 2008 Weekly Carfree SD Urban Design  Newsletter
In-Reply-To: <c7b024280803071809i5d439defke28b8d9a18c2e4fd@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <c7b024280803071809i5d439defke28b8d9a18c2e4fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080308022821.HPGF14418.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>

Colin,

As a subscriber to this list, you are free do do as you wish (within 
reason - and assuming no abuse takes place) with the content of the 
postings to the SDCBC list as log as you remain a subscriber in good standing.

I'm posting this response to the list rather that just to you because 
you chose to pose your administrative question to the list rather 
than take it up with the list administrators.

Any further discussion of this topic should be addressed to me personally.

Please do not flood this list with off topic postings.  The volume on 
this list is already very high and we lose cycle oriented members 
frequently because they no longer feel what appears here is 
sufficiently relevant to continue their subscription.

We have no interest in expanding the range of topics beyond those 
strictly related to cycling in San Diego County.

     - Tom (List Administrator)

At 06:09 PM 3/7/2008, Colin Leath wrote:

>[SDCBC: I just found the 
><http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc-announce/>announce 
>list! In the future I may nab some events from it. Here's the Urban 
>section of a newsletter I'm testing creating. Peace, Colin]
>
>I'm testing out the idea of creating a weekly newsletter that I post 
>to <http://sdtjdph.blogspot.com/>SD/TJ Design, Plant, Harvest. The 
>newsletter will have sections that I will email out separately to 
>several email lists. I'll need volunteers to help keep this going by 
>contributing and also to help post if I'm not near a computer that 
>week. I have started a <http://sdtjdphwrap.blogspot.com/>separate 
>blog to be used for contributing to the newsletter and preparing the 
>weekly newsletter. Basically, email your contributions to 
>sdtjdph.wrap at <http://blogger.com>blogger.com, following the 
>format I've used below. The newsletter has its 
><http://feeds.feedburner.com/sdtjdphwrap>own feed, and you also can 
>subscribe to it 
><http://www.feedburner.com/fb/a/emailverifySubmit?feedId=1763204>by 
>email. If any errors are discovered after posting, they will be 
>corrected in 
><http://sdtjdph.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-7-2008-weekly-wrap-sdtjdph.html>the 
>version at SDTJDPH.
>
>Contents
>    * 
> <http://sdtjdph.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-7-2008-weekly-wrap-sdtjdph.html#urban>Urban 
> Design (for a permaculture)
>Item types
>    * Event, News, Resource
>Item categories
>    * Food, Urban, Collaboration
>Locations
>    * <http://www.sandiego.gov/planning/community/profiles/>Neighborhoods
>Urban Design (for a permaculture)
>    * Events
>        * Uptown SD / Hillcrest | Event | Urban | 
> <http://sdtjdphevents.blogspot.com/2008/03/bus-riders-union-rally-and-film-march.html>Bus 
> Riders Union Rally and Film, Thu Mar 20 630pm at the Joyce Beers Center
>        * Los Angeles | Event | Urban | 
> <http://www.wilshirecenter.com/earthday/>Section of Wilshire Blvd 
> Carfree for Earth Day, Tue Apr 22
>        * SD | Event | Urban | 
> <http://www.sandiegoriver.org/SanDiegoRiverDay.html>San Diego River 
> Days May 10-18 (link is to the page for the 2005 event)
>    * News
>        * LA | News | Urban | 
> <http://carfreeusa.blogspot.com/2008/03/bikeways-history-and-future.html>Southern 
> California set the nation on the path to bicycling bliss, then 
> detoured. But smogville could still become a velotopia (Sierra Club Magazine)
>        * SD | News | Urban | 
> <http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2008/03/05/news/02graywater030508.txt>'Showers 
> to Flowers' (greywater) Struggles for Foothold (Voice of San Diego)
>        * SD | News | Urban | 
> <http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20080306-9999-1mc6monast.html>Buddhist 
> monastery adds a solar system to harmonious ways (SDUT)
>        * SD | News | Urban | <http://planetizen.com/node/29977>A 
> Brief History of Planning in San Diego (SDUT)
>        * SD | News | Urban | 
> <http://colinleath.googlepages.com/irc.transportation.coordinator.htm>San 
> Diego IRC hiring Transportation Coordinator
>    * Resources
>        * LA | Resource | Urban | <http://la.streetsblog.org/>LA Streetsblog
>        * SD | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Davis_%28scholar%29>Wikipedia on Mike Davis
>        * Global | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://www.energyjustice.net/>Energy Justice Network
>        * Global | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://risingtide.org.uk/node/241>Fossil Fools Day
>        * London / Global | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://www.planestupid.com/>Plane Stupid - bringing the aviation 
> industry back down to earth!
>        * Global | Resource | Urban | <http://lowflyzone.org/>Low 
> Fly Zone - Pledge to be free from flying
>        * NY/NJ/CT | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://tstc.org/about.html>Tri-State Transportation Campaign (the 
> LA Streetsblogger worked on this)
>        * SD | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://socalpeace.blogspot.com/>SoCal Peace: SD County (+ SoCal) 
> Coalition for Peaceful Cities
>        * SD | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://carfrees.blogspot.com/>Carfree SD blog
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as tlettington at san.rr.com
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080307/401c69c2/attachment-0001.html 

From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Sat Mar  8 10:32:18 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 07:32:18 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] shared space
In-Reply-To: <69ec985b0803061058l7b32494ch2210bc16f41e4fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFIEHODBAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>

I would welcome an informed, factual, unemotional debate between Hans
Monderman and Dan Burden. Do WOLs encourage motorists to drive faster than
they do in narrow lanes, or slower? I am reading and hearing diametrically
opposed opinions from purported experts.
  -----Original Message-----


  I believe the concept of shared space pioneered by Hans Monderman applies
here:



  There is a tradeoff between traffic throughput and the slower
speeds/lesser throughput implied by shared space, so I'm not a proponent of
removing all stripes, signs and pavement (Wade, to answer your question from
a few days ago: I think fog lines and shoulder stripes have their purpose
too - but I'm wary of riding to the right of them just as I'm wary of riding
to the right of a bike lane stripe), but in the case of bike lane stripes I
think bicyclists (and joggers) are much better off if the outside lane is
one big attention-enhancing "shared space" (a.k.a. Wide Outside Lane, or
WOL) rather than the attention-inhibiting "stripe separated space" (a.k.a.
bike lane).  The relatively minor reduction in throughput (caused by
motorists perhaps having to slow a bit because they're being more careful
due to the lack of separating stripe) is a valuable tradeoff, for the
increased attention, lower speed differentials and better safety.

  These tragedies are practically unheard of in shared space WOLs, and are
all too common in bike lanes.  I believe this is because everyone
(motorists, bicyclists, peds and joggers) pays more attention in shared
space WOLs, and less attention around bike lanes, and every time yet another
person dies in a bike lane from yet another "inadvertent drift" into an
unnoticed occupant of the bike lane, I am only more convinced that bike
lanes cause create more harm than good for cyclists.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080308/6c8290c4/attachment.html 

From serge at issakov.org  Sat Mar  8 11:20:11 2008
From: serge at issakov.org (Serge Issakov)
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 08:20:11 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] shared space
In-Reply-To: <HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFIEHODBAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>
References: <69ec985b0803061058l7b32494ch2210bc16f41e4fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFIEHODBAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <69ec985b0803080820nb6e4fa3q29aae6c8e2bf0ef3@mail.gmail.com>

Well Monderman just passed away this year.
But what is each one's stand on the question?

Anyway, I think the issue relevant to bicyclists isn't do WOLs encourage
motorists to drive faster than they do in narrow lanes, but how fast do they
drive in typical configurations *with bicyclists (or joggers/peds) present
in the WOL or BL*.

So for an apples to apples comparison, I would want to compare driver
behavior in:

a) 15' WOL with bicyclist present up ahead hugging the curb
b) 15' WOL with bicyclist present up ahead tracking 12' right of traffic
lane stripe
c) 11' NOL + 4' BL with bicyclist present up ahead in bike lane tracking 12'
right of traffic lane stripe

traffic lane stripe = the stripe demarcating the left edge of the outside
traffic lane
WOL = Wide Outside Lane
NOL = Narrow Outside Lane
BL = Bike Lane

>From what I understand about shared space philosophy, the clarity of ROW
created by the BL stripe in (c) would result in motorist behavior being
largely unaffected by the bicyclist's presence, while the bicyclist's
presence - because of the more ambiguous ROW situation - in (a) and
especially (b) would tend to cause motorists to take notice and slow down.

That certainly explains the behavior I see when I'm riding in traffic.  In
fact, in WOLs, when a motorist approaching from behind (I use a mirror for
this very purpose) does not alter his track or speed in a way that indicates
he has noticed me, I see that as a very rare red flag situation that
indicates I should do something to grab his attention (move laterally a foot
or two either way, look back, issue slow/stop arm signal, etc.).  When
riding in a bike lane, I don't have that luxury because the vast majority of
drivers are driving as if I'm not even there.  In other words, it's obvious
that the bike lane stripe does its job: it clarifies lateral ROW between the
motorist and the cyclist.  But I'd rather be noticed and have the driver be
a bit stressed about my presence so that he slows, takes care and isn't
attending to a distraction as he passes, especially on high speed roads, but
maybe that's just me.

Serge


On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 7:32 AM, John Eldon <j.eldon at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>  I would welcome an informed, factual, unemotional debate between Hans
> Monderman and Dan Burden. Do WOLs encourage motorists to drive faster than
> they do in narrow lanes, or slower? I am reading and hearing diametrically
> opposed opinions from purported experts.
>


-- 
NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080308/492df86e/attachment.html 

From tlettington at san.rr.com  Sat Mar  8 11:47:30 2008
From: tlettington at san.rr.com (Tom Lettington)
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 08:47:30 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Protection of List Posting Content
Message-ID: <20080308164714.UMLA28190.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>

RESEND (with proviso):

Colin (and others),

My  remark about use of content posted to our list must not be taken 
as giving blanket permission to redistribute, without restrictions, 
anything one of our subscribers posts.  Common courtesy dictates that 
the author's permission be obtained before discussions here are 
distributed anywhere except to the subscribers of this list.

    - Tom

=======================================

As a subscriber to this list, you are free do do as you wish (within 
reason - and assuming no abuse takes place) with the content of the 
postings to the SDCBC list as log as you remain a subscriber in good standing.

I'm posting this response to the list rather that just to you because 
you chose to pose your administrative question to the list rather 
than take it up with the list administrators.

Any further discussion of this topic should be addressed to me personally.

Please do not flood this list with off topic postings.  The volume on 
this list is already very high and we lose cycle oriented members 
frequently because they no longer feel what appears here is 
sufficiently relevant to continue their subscription.

We have no interest in expanding the range of topics beyond those 
strictly related to cycling in San Diego County.

     - Tom (List Administrator)

At 06:09 PM 3/7/2008, Colin Leath wrote:

>[SDCBC: I just found the 
><http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc-announce/>announce 
>list! In the future I may nab some events from it. Here's the Urban 
>section of a newsletter I'm testing creating. Peace, Colin]
>
>I'm testing out the idea of creating a weekly newsletter that I post 
>to <http://sdtjdph.blogspot.com/>SD/TJ Design, Plant, Harvest. The 
>newsletter will have sections that I will email out separately to 
>several email lists. I'll need volunteers to help keep this going by 
>contributing and also to help post if I'm not near a computer that 
>week. I have started a <http://sdtjdphwrap.blogspot.com/>separate 
>blog to be used for contributing to the newsletter and preparing the 
>weekly newsletter. Basically, email your contributions to 
>sdtjdph.wrap at <http://blogger.com>blogger.com, following the 
>format I've used below. The newsletter has its 
><http://feeds.feedburner.com/sdtjdphwrap>own feed, and you also can 
>subscribe to it 
><http://www.feedburner.com/fb/a/emailverifySubmit?feedId=1763204>by 
>email. If any errors are discovered after posting, they will be 
>corrected in 
><http://sdtjdph.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-7-2008-weekly-wrap-sdtjdph.html>the 
>version at SDTJDPH.
>
>Contents
>    * 
> <http://sdtjdph.blogspot.com/2008/03/march-7-2008-weekly-wrap-sdtjdph.html#urban>Urban 
> Design (for a permaculture)
>Item types
>    * Event, News, Resource
>Item categories
>    * Food, Urban, Collaboration
>Locations
>    * <http://www.sandiego.gov/planning/community/profiles/>Neighborhoods
>Urban Design (for a permaculture)
>    * Events
>        * Uptown SD / Hillcrest | Event | Urban | 
> <http://sdtjdphevents.blogspot.com/2008/03/bus-riders-union-rally-and-film-march.html>Bus 
> Riders Union Rally and Film, Thu Mar 20 630pm at the Joyce Beers Center
>        * Los Angeles | Event | Urban | 
> <http://www.wilshirecenter.com/earthday/>Section of Wilshire Blvd 
> Carfree for Earth Day, Tue Apr 22
>        * SD | Event | Urban | 
> <http://www.sandiegoriver.org/SanDiegoRiverDay.html>San Diego River 
> Days May 10-18 (link is to the page for the 2005 event)
>    * News
>        * LA | News | Urban | 
> <http://carfreeusa.blogspot.com/2008/03/bikeways-history-and-future.html>Southern 
> California set the nation on the path to bicycling bliss, then 
> detoured. But smogville could still become a velotopia (Sierra Club Magazine)
>        * SD | News | Urban | 
> <http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2008/03/05/news/02graywater030508.txt>'Showers 
> to Flowers' (greywater) Struggles for Foothold (Voice of San Diego)
>        * SD | News | Urban | 
> <http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20080306-9999-1mc6monast.html>Buddhist 
> monastery adds a solar system to harmonious ways (SDUT)
>        * SD | News | Urban | <http://planetizen.com/node/29977>A 
> Brief History of Planning in San Diego (SDUT)
>        * SD | News | Urban | 
> <http://colinleath.googlepages.com/irc.transportation.coordinator.htm>San 
> Diego IRC hiring Transportation Coordinator
>    * Resources
>        * LA | Resource | Urban | <http://la.streetsblog.org/>LA Streetsblog
>        * SD | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Davis_%28scholar%29>Wikipedia on Mike Davis
>        * Global | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://www.energyjustice.net/>Energy Justice Network
>        * Global | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://risingtide.org.uk/node/241>Fossil Fools Day
>        * London / Global | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://www.planestupid.com/>Plane Stupid - bringing the aviation 
> industry back down to earth!
>        * Global | Resource | Urban | <http://lowflyzone.org/>Low 
> Fly Zone - Pledge to be free from flying
>        * NY/NJ/CT | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://tstc.org/about.html>Tri-State Transportation Campaign (the 
> LA Streetsblogger worked on this)
>        * SD | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://socalpeace.blogspot.com/>SoCal Peace: SD County (+ SoCal) 
> Coalition for Peaceful Cities
>        * SD | Resource | Urban | 
> <http://carfrees.blogspot.com/>Carfree SD blog
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as tlettington at san.rr.com
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080308/9129544e/attachment.html 

From tlettington at san.rr.com  Sun Mar  9 21:25:44 2008
From: tlettington at san.rr.com (Tom Lettington)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 18:25:44 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC]  Protection of List Posting Content
Message-ID: <20080310012523.GWNW2814.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>

Last word on this subject (I hope)

Colin (and others),

Our list server host at stickman computing provides an archive of 
postings to our list at http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/ 
so subscribers can look back over their shoulders to revisit old 
discussions.  The archives are sortable on a month by month basis 
(since June 2006) by thread, subject, author, or date.

This should be almost enough archive service to satisfy our most 
demanding subscribers. ;-)

    - Tom


From camping.elliott at gmail.com  Sun Mar  9 22:03:27 2008
From: camping.elliott at gmail.com (Mike Elliott)
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 19:03:27 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Unfamiliar territory opens up this Sunday
In-Reply-To: <20080307171523.LDC34430@ms1.sandiego.edu>
References: <20080307171523.LDC34430@ms1.sandiego.edu>
Message-ID: <47D496EF.5000507@gmail.com>

Thank you!

Any recommendations for good weekend breakfast eats in the Escondido area?

-- 
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
Carlsbad, CA


On 3/7/2008 5:15 PM cziegler at sandiego.edu wrote:

> Check out the rides we do with Recyclers in Escondido.  www.sdrecyclers.org
> Carole
> 
> 
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:14:12 -0800
>> From: Mike Elliott <camping.elliott at gmail.com>  
>> Subject: [SDCBC] Unfamiliar territory opens up this Sunday  
>> To: "'Sdcbc'" <sdcbc at bikesandiego.org>
>>
>> If all goes well, the new North County Transit Center's Sprinter train 
>> [1] which connects Oceanside to Escondido (with stops in Vista and San 
>> Marcos) will start running this Sunday. For my wife and me, Escondido is 
>> terra incognita vis-?-vis bicycling as there is not a terribly easy 
>> route to get there from here in Carlsbad, so we are excited about the 
>> possibility of hopping onto one of those every half-hour trains with our 
>> bikes [2] and doing some riding out there this spring. The train route 
>> terminates at the Escondido Transit Center. Where can we find a list of 
>> nice bike rides that start near there? And more importantly, where are 
>> the good places to grab a good breakfast or brunch in that neck of the 
>> woods?
>>
>> ===================
>> 1. http://gonctd.com/sprinter_intro.htm
>>
>> 2. "Bikes, wheelchairs and strollers are welcome on the SPRINTER. 
>> Passengers will enter the train car through doors marked with a bicycle, 
>> wheelchair or stroller emblem. Bikes must not exceed six feet in 
>> horizontal length, must not have any protrusions and must not block 
>> seats, aisles, doorways or exits. Please bring your own straps or bungee 
>> cords to secure your bicycle." http://gonctd.com/sprinter_howtoride.htm
>> -- 
>>
>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>> Carlsbad
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as cziegler at sandiego.edu
>> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
> 

From execdir at sdcbc.org  Mon Mar 10 23:32:42 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:32:42 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] FW: [sdbikekitchen] Bike Kitchen Open House, Spring Cleaning
Message-ID: <002d01c88328$93158250$b94086f0$@org>

News from our friends at the Bike Kitchen - 

-----Original Message-----
From: sdbikekitchen-owner at lists.riseup.net
[mailto:sdbikekitchen-owner at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of
working_girl1912 at riseup.net
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:01 PM
To: cityheightsfreeskool at lists.riseup.net; sdbikekitchen at lists.riseup.net
Subject: [sdbikekitchen] Bike Kitchen Open House, Spring Cleaning

Hey Friends,

This is a reminder that this Sunday the 16th from 11 am  to 3 pm the Free
Skool is having and Open House. Come check out the projects, have some
snacks, make new friends and learn more about how to plug into the Free
Skool.

Also for the Bike Kitchen friends we are going to be doing some spring
cleaning these next few weeks to get rid of some old rusty eroded parts and
make room for more usable parts. That means we are also doing a spring
donation outreach effort. Yeah!! Attached is a letter to give to friends,
bike shops etc.

any questions, don't hesitate to contact us

Mad Love-
Free Skool & Bike Kitchen

Free Bike Kitchen
4246 Wightman Street
San Diego, CA 92105
www.cityheightsfreeskool.org
sdbikekitchen at riseup.net

Spring 2008 

Dear friend of the Free Bike Kitchen:

This spring, the Free Bike Kitchen is reaching out to the bike community who
has supported us so much over this past year. This Spring we are doing some
cleaning in an effort to recycle the rusted and eroded parts we have
accumulated. This means that we will have more room for our project to house
the parts our community needs. We are also launching out mobile bike clinics
in the summer at the City Heights Open Air Market. That means we will be
open Saturdays 9 am to 1 pm and Sundays 1 pm to 5 pm.
The Bike Kitchen is an all volunteer run cooperative learning space and a
do-it-yourself bike repair shop. With your support we will continue to
provide skill-shares, workshops, and mechanical assistance for our bike
riding community to support the accessibility of bikes for everyone and bike
safety. The shop has all donated tools and parts for repairing, maintaining
and building bikes. We emphasis creating a space that supports the
empowerment and self-sufficiency.
We can only keep doing this important work going with your support. We hope
we can count on you to help. Please send the most generous gift you can by
mail or in kind at the above address.
With grateful appreciation,
The Free Bike Kitchen






Save this letter: If you donated to the Free Bike Kitchen because you
believe in the work we are doing in San Diego, but remember that our fiscal
sponsor, Activist San Diego, is officially recognized as a 501 (c)(3)
non-profit organization. This means that your donations are tax-deductible,
our nonprofit tax ID number is 33-0860813


Activist San Diego is a grassroots social justice network providing
education, Internet information and other resources to help individuals and
organizations increase their community involvement in a wide variety of
social issues. Check out our website at www.ActivistSanDiego.org



From JimBaross at cox.net  Tue Mar 11 22:29:35 2008
From: JimBaross at cox.net (Jim Baross)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:29:35 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Fwd: Nice Bicycle Article in the Sierra Club Magazine this
 month
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080311192757.03f1bec0@cox.net>

FYI

>From: John Cinatl
>Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:27:55 -0800
>Greeting All
>
>The Sierra Club's magazine Sierra has a nice bicycle related article this
>month.
>
>I checked their website and found an electronic copy of the same article.
>
>http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200803/bikeway.asp
>
>JOHN
>____________________________
>John F. Cinatl,  Associate Transportation Planner
>North Region & Bicycle Facilities Planning
>Caltrans - District 6 - Fresno, CA




From jwstump at cox.net  Wed Mar 12 07:38:13 2008
From: jwstump at cox.net (jwstump at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 4:38:13 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Bike Video Camera worth Checking out
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080311192757.03f1bec0@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20080312073813.JNNI6.125.imail@fed1rmwml25>

Go to:

http://www2.oregonscientific.com/shop/product.asp?cid=20&scid=77&pid=709&src=72 
  
ATC2K Waterproof Action Cam
(AT18) 
For a limited time only we are offering the ATC2K camera with an SD card for $10 more. Please Click Here to Purchase.

Take your adventure home with ATC2K, the ultimate waterproof action cam! Weighing in at half a pound (with batteries), this self-contained, hands-free digital video cam delivers full color digital video in 640 X 480 VGA at 30 frames per second - even underwater. 

Snow, Rain, or a dunk in a kayak? No worries - ATC2K is waterproof to 10 feet! PC and MAC compatible, ATC2K works seamlessly with most video editing software. Expandable up to 2GB on a standard SD card, ATC2K mounts easily and all mounting hardware is included. 

Although the manual and packaging may state the product is only water-resistant, subsequent tests have since certified the product as waterproof. Please do not be alarmed by this discrepancy when receiving your product. 

Visit www.atc2k.com to see video clips and to upload your own ATC2K video. 

Don?t forget your SD card: buy one here. 
For a sample of actual ATC2K video Click Here. 

For an ATC2K interactive demo Click Here. 
  
$119.99

From jwstump at cox.net  Wed Mar 12 07:40:09 2008
From: jwstump at cox.net (jwstump at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 7:40:09 -0400
Subject: [SDCBC] Bike Video Camera worth Checking out
Message-ID: <20080312074009.FTVLZ.128.imail@fed1rmwml25>

Go to:Oregon Scientific at

http://www2.oregonscientific.com/shop/product.asp?cid=20&scid=77&pid=709&src=72 
  
ATC2K Waterproof Action Cam
(AT18) 
For a limited time only we are offering the ATC2K camera with an SD card for $10 more. Please Click Here to Purchase.

Take your adventure home with ATC2K, the ultimate waterproof action cam! Weighing in at half a pound (with batteries), this self-contained, hands-free digital video cam delivers full color digital video in 640 X 480 VGA at 30 frames per second - even underwater. 

Snow, Rain, or a dunk in a kayak? No worries - ATC2K is waterproof to 10 feet! PC and MAC compatible, ATC2K works seamlessly with most video editing software. Expandable up to 2GB on a standard SD card, ATC2K mounts easily and all mounting hardware is included. 

Although the manual and packaging may state the product is only water-resistant, subsequent tests have since certified the product as waterproof. Please do not be alarmed by this discrepancy when receiving your product. 

Visit www.atc2k.com to see video clips and to upload your own ATC2K video. 

Don?t forget your SD card: buy one here. 
For a sample of actual ATC2K video Click Here. 

For an ATC2K interactive demo Click Here. 
  
$119.99

From neil0502 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 12 11:37:34 2008
From: neil0502 at yahoo.com (Neil Brooks)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:37:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC]  Awareness
Message-ID: <885301.5709.qm@web32406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://www.dothetest.co.uk/

You can click on "SKIP INTRO"

It IS cycling content.... ;-)

From gcarman at san.rr.com  Thu Mar 13 10:20:32 2008
From: gcarman at san.rr.com (Gene Carman)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 06:20:32 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Awareness
In-Reply-To: <885301.5709.qm@web32406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <885301.5709.qm@web32406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080313141928.NWGO14418.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@ppg1.san.rr.com>


Beyond the awareness issue, perhaps a bigger question is why such pro 
cycling advocacy is not being produced and broadcast in the US?



At 07:37 AM 3/12/2008, Neil Brooks wrote:
>http://www.dothetest.co.uk/
>
>You can click on "SKIP INTRO"
>
>It IS cycling content.... ;-)
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org


From bikes.alot at cox.net  Thu Mar 13 12:19:08 2008
From: bikes.alot at cox.net (Bicyclist)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:19:08 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Who's pulling for bicycling? was Re:  Awareness
In-Reply-To: <20080313141928.NWGO14418.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@ppg1.sa
	n.rr.com>
References: <885301.5709.qm@web32406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20080313141928.NWGO14418.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@ppg1.san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080313090351.03e4eea8@cox.net>

At 07:20 AM 3/13/2008, Gene Carman wrote:

>Beyond the awareness issue, perhaps a bigger question is why such pro
>cycling advocacy is not being produced and broadcast in the US?

Ah, but it is... though probably pretty closely to the very small 
percentage that bicycling profits correspond to the dollars available 
to the motor vehicle industry.  :-(
The bicycling industry has been slow to accept that promoting the 
mode in general "raises the tide"/benefits all of them.... but in 
relation to the huge amounts that car manufacturers have available to 
spend for advertising, bicycling's resources pale.

Much as I'd want the industry to pony-up more resources to promoting 
bicycling, it seems that the significant dollars for now will have to 
come from government agencies promoting health concerns for 
incorporating exercise into daily lives, better/more 
efficient/cheaper/cleaner transportation choices, 
environmental/global warming amelioration, 
live-able/walk-able/bike-able communities, .... even fun.

And, from a lot of good-hearted people willing to individually and 
collectively ride a wave I see building of desire to change 
America's/American's way of life in regards more appropriate 
decisions about transportation choices.

There is, in my view, quite a lot going on for bicycling - though not 
enough to be sure.

Want more? Get involved in making it happen. The peloton is moving 
but could use more "pulling from the front"/support.

Jim (thanking all who have and are taking a turn at the front) Baross;-) 



From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 13 15:47:51 2008
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (rob_leone at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:47:51 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [SDCBC] Complements from other road users.
Message-ID: <32255132.1205437671720.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Dear SDCBCers:
   Hello! On my way back home from the Volunteer Meeting last night I received

A) One completement from a crosswalk-using pedestrian on my bicycle's brakes compared, highly favorably, to those of the SUV that roared through right the very stale yellow right before I came to a stop.

B) Two complements (one from a pedestrian at the corner by the Coalition's office building, one from a motorist [with bike rack on the back of the station wagon!] who rolled down a window and slowed down to deliver his verdict) on my lights.

Just doing my part to make sharing the road easier for all....

Robert Leone

From wondernerd at juno.com  Thu Mar 13 17:06:04 2008
From: wondernerd at juno.com (Frank  Paiano)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:06:04 GMT
Subject: [SDCBC] Bike Group at Cabrillo Community College (near Santa Cruz)
Message-ID: <20080313.140604.14381.0@webmail10.vgs.untd.com>

Kinda' cool article about a bicycle cooperative at a community college:
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_8519494

Cheers!
Frank Paiano
Ocean Beach
 
 
 
.
.
.


_____________________________________________________________
Great pay, great benefits, rewarding.  Click for information on a healthcare career.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/REAK6ZpRKyyXvaQJYMnDFzKOWL0ELEtOb6t7ZlvmLSwftm4SUgDshM/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080313/f3ec7fb6/attachment-0001.html 

From pje at efgh.com  Thu Mar 13 23:41:05 2008
From: pje at efgh.com (Philip Erdelsky)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:41:05 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Sprinter is Sprinting
Message-ID: <47D9F3D1.4010506@efgh.com>

Today (March 13) my bicycle and I took a ride on the
long-awaited and recently-opened SPRINTER train, which
runs along the railroad corridor between Oceanside and Escondido.

I took the Coaster to Oceanside, rode my bike to Escondido,
took the Sprinter back to Oceanside, and returned to San Diego
on the Coaster.

The trains run every half-hour on weekdays, and every hour on weekends
and holidays. A one-way trip takes about 50 minutes.

Bicycle facilities are better than the San Diego Trolley and not
quite as good as the Coaster.

    On the San Diego Trolley, you stand and hold your bike.
    On the Sprinter, you sit down and hold your bike.
    On the Coaster, you secure your bike and sit down elsewhere.

Access is quite good. The entrance is flush with the platform, as
with the newer San Diego Trolley cars. The Coaster and the older
San Diego Trolley cars have steps, and the latter also have
stanchions to grab your handlebars.

Capacity is limited. The San Diego Trolley is limited to two bikes
per car (and I have seen a third cyclists forced to move to another
car). The Sprinter could probably take four to six bikes. The Coaster
capacity appears to be unlimited.

Despite the signs, you can't secure your bike in the bike area
on the Sprinter. The NCTD Web site says bring your own straps,
but there's nothing to strap them to.

The fare is $2, or $1 for senior/disabled. San Diego monthly and
daily transit passes are accepted.

I didn't check the Coaster-to-Sprinter connection. However, it
was announced that a Coaster ticket is accepted for a single ride
on NCTD buses if used promptly. It would probably also be accepted
for a Sprinter ride.

The Coaster and Sprinter stations in Oceanside are adjacent. In fact,
if they were any closer, the trains would collide.

Photographs:

      http://www.efghmaps.com/temp/34876.jpg inside of train (faces obscured)
      http://www.efghmaps.com/temp/34877.jpg bicycle securement area

From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Fri Mar 14 09:42:00 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 06:42:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Sprinter is Sprinting
In-Reply-To: <47D9F3D1.4010506@efgh.com>
Message-ID: <335479.75557.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

A clarification regarding Coaster bicycle accommodation capacity -- pay attention to the serial numbers on the coaches, viz:

The sixteen original coaches, numbered 22xx (mid-train coaches) and 23xx (control cabs), have two bicycle tie-downs each, but there is ad-hoc room for up to four additional bikes (no tie-downs) at the opposite end of the coach, if no one is sitting on the longitudinal fold-down seats. It is probably a good idea to carry a spare bungie cord or two when traveling by Coaster.

The six somewhat newer 240x series coaches have two bicycle tie-downs by the marked bicycle doors and four additional tie-downs at the other end. If your train happens to have a 240x coach, use it.

The newest coaches, the 250x series, have three bicycle tie-downs under the stairwell adjacent to the marked bicycle entrance.

In practice, Coaster conductors are bike-friendly and reasonable. If the official spaces are taken, stand with your bike near one of the doorways, and move as needed at each station stop to let people enter and exit. Be considerate and polite, and you should never have a problem bringing your bike onboard -- I have done so numerous times.

John E.
Philip Erdelsky <pje at efgh.com> wrote: Today (March 13) my bicycle and I took a ride on the
long-awaited and recently-opened SPRINTER train, which
runs along the railroad corridor between Oceanside and Escondido.


Bicycle facilities are better than the San Diego Trolley and not
quite as good as the Coaster.

Capacity is limited. The San Diego Trolley is limited to two bikes
per car (and I have seen a third cyclists forced to move to another
car). The Sprinter could probably take four to six bikes. The Coaster
capacity appears to be unlimited.


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080314/76c35fe6/attachment.html 

From Rosemary.Braun at uboc.com  Fri Mar 14 10:43:41 2008
From: Rosemary.Braun at uboc.com (Rosemary Braun)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:43:41 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Custom Bicycle Jerseys
In-Reply-To: <c7b024280803071809i5d439defke28b8d9a18c2e4fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7b024280803071809i5d439defke28b8d9a18c2e4fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94626C76BDE3574686C36954B4A876B201385F86@MPSC-EXMB03.uboc-ad.corp.uboc.com>

Can anyone recommend a local shop to have custom bicycle jerseys made? 


******************************************************************************
This communication (including any attachments) may contain privileged or
confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, 
and is protected by law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you should
delete this communication and/or shred the materials and any attachments and
are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this
communication, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.

Thank you.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080314/a8ccab25/attachment.html 

From markw at wolfenet.org  Fri Mar 14 15:54:27 2008
From: markw at wolfenet.org (mark wolfe)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:54:27 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Sprinter is Sprinting
In-Reply-To: <335479.75557.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <335479.75557.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47DAD7F3.70205@wolfenet.org>

How's the speed from end to end?   I found that when I worked downtown, 
I could ride from Santee to Balboa Park (Navy Hospital) faster than I 
could take the Trolley from Santee.

Right now to go from Santee to City College is 1 hour and 17 minutes. 
To ride my bike to the trolley station from the house is about 7 minutes 
(I live by Santana HS), add another 5 minutes at the other end, so I'm 
about 1:30 total travel time end to end.  The total distance via bike is 
  just under 20 miles, and I was consistently in the 1 - 1:05 range 
after about a month or so at 3 times a week.  I think most of us on this 
list could ride that route in less than 1:30.  So I don't see the 
benefit of bikes on trains for other than long trips where the train 
will save you time.  The coaster is an exception as it is packed daily, 
and a TON of people in the north county toss their bike on it at one end 
and get off in places south then finish the ride in.

IMHO, the Trolley and Sprinter along with most public transportation is 
a huge waste of my tax $$$.   Kind of like the empty city buses driving 
around.  While it's nice, only parts of the line really get used. 
Downtown South to the border, and Downtown East to about 25th street, 
after that it empties pretty darn quick.  After being overseas and 
seeing what real public transportation is, what we have stateside 
outside of NYC is a joke.  For public transportation to be useful, you 
should be able to walk outside your door, go a couple blocks, get on a 
FAST train, then get off a couple blocks from your destination.   Works 
great for Urban areas, not so great for the suburbs.

Mark




John Eldon wrote:
> A clarification regarding Coaster bicycle accommodation capacity -- pay attention to the serial numbers on the coaches, viz:
> 
> The sixteen original coaches, numbered 22xx (mid-train coaches) and 23xx (control cabs), have two bicycle tie-downs each, but there is ad-hoc room for up to four additional bikes (no tie-downs) at the opposite end of the coach, if no one is sitting on the longitudinal fold-down seats. It is probably a good idea to carry a spare bungie cord or two when traveling by Coaster.
> 
> The six somewhat newer 240x series coaches have two bicycle tie-downs by the marked bicycle doors and four additional tie-downs at the other end. If your train happens to have a 240x coach, use it.
> 
> The newest coaches, the 250x series, have three bicycle tie-downs under the stairwell adjacent to the marked bicycle entrance.
> 
> In practice, Coaster conductors are bike-friendly and reasonable. If the official spaces are taken, stand with your bike near one of the doorways, and move as needed at each station stop to let people enter and exit. Be considerate and polite, and you should never have a problem bringing your bike onboard -- I have done so numerous times.
> 
> John E.
> Philip Erdelsky <pje at efgh.com> wrote: Today (March 13) my bicycle and I took a ride on the
> long-awaited and recently-opened SPRINTER train, which
> runs along the railroad corridor between Oceanside and Escondido.
> 
> 
> Bicycle facilities are better than the San Diego Trolley and not
> quite as good as the Coaster.
> 
> Capacity is limited. The San Diego Trolley is limited to two bikes
> per car (and I have seen a third cyclists forced to move to another
> car). The Sprinter could probably take four to six bikes. The Coaster
> capacity appears to be unlimited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as markw at wolfenet.org
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org


From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Fri Mar 14 16:01:26 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Sprinter is Sprinting
In-Reply-To: <47DAD7F3.70205@wolfenet.org>
Message-ID: <112189.63079.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

For those of living on the north coast, the Coaster is an absolute joy.

mark wolfe <markw at wolfenet.org> wrote: How's the speed from end to end?   I found that when I worked downtown, 
I could ride from Santee to Balboa Park (Navy Hospital) faster than I 
could take the Trolley from Santee.


IMHO, the Trolley and Sprinter along with most public transportation is 
a huge waste of my tax $$$. ...  After being overseas and 
seeing what real public transportation is, what we have stateside 
outside of NYC is a joke.  For public transportation to be useful, you 
should be able to walk outside your door, go a couple blocks, get on a 
FAST train, then get off a couple blocks from your destination.   Works 
great for Urban areas, not so great for the suburbs.

Mark




John Eldon wrote:
> A clarification regarding Coaster bicycle accommodation capacity -- pay attention to the serial numbers on the coaches, viz:
> 
> The sixteen original coaches, numbered 22xx (mid-train coaches) and 23xx (control cabs), have two bicycle tie-downs each, but there is ad-hoc room for up to four additional bikes (no tie-downs) at the opposite end of the coach, if no one is sitting on the longitudinal fold-down seats. It is probably a good idea to carry a spare bungie cord or two when traveling by Coaster.
> 
> The six somewhat newer 240x series coaches have two bicycle tie-downs by the marked bicycle doors and four additional tie-downs at the other end. If your train happens to have a 240x coach, use it.
> 
> The newest coaches, the 250x series, have three bicycle tie-downs under the stairwell adjacent to the marked bicycle entrance.
> 
> In practice, Coaster conductors are bike-friendly and reasonable. If the official spaces are taken, stand with your bike near one of the doorways, and move as needed at each station stop to let people enter and exit. Be considerate and polite, and you should never have a problem bringing your bike onboard -- I have done so numerous times.
> 
> John E.
> Philip Erdelsky 
 wrote: Today (March 13) my bicycle and I took a ride on the
> long-awaited and recently-opened SPRINTER train, which
> runs along the railroad corridor between Oceanside and Escondido.
> 
> 
> Bicycle facilities are better than the San Diego Trolley and not
> quite as good as the Coaster.
> 
> Capacity is limited. The San Diego Trolley is limited to two bikes
> per car (and I have seen a third cyclists forced to move to another
> car). The Sprinter could probably take four to six bikes. The Coaster
> capacity appears to be unlimited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as markw at wolfenet.org
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as j.eldon at ieee.org
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080314/415d2f1a/attachment-0001.html 

From markw at wolfenet.org  Fri Mar 14 17:57:18 2008
From: markw at wolfenet.org (mark wolfe)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:57:18 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Sprinter is Sprinting
In-Reply-To: <112189.63079.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <112189.63079.qm@web52507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47DAF4BE.5040601@wolfenet.org>

I've heard that about the Coaster.   Guys commute by bike to the 
Coaster, get on, ride it south, finish commute.  Makes bike commuting 
from Carlsbad/Oceanside to downtown feasible.  I think any more than 20 
miles and the Trolley would beat me. :)

Mark

John Eldon wrote:
> For those of living on the north coast, the Coaster is an absolute joy.
> 
> mark wolfe <markw at wolfenet.org> wrote: How's the speed from end to end?   I found that when I worked downtown, 
> I could ride from Santee to Balboa Park (Navy Hospital) faster than I 
> could take the Trolley from Santee.
> 
> 
> IMHO, the Trolley and Sprinter along with most public transportation is 
> a huge waste of my tax $$$. ...  After being overseas and 
> seeing what real public transportation is, what we have stateside 
> outside of NYC is a joke.  For public transportation to be useful, you 
> should be able to walk outside your door, go a couple blocks, get on a 
> FAST train, then get off a couple blocks from your destination.   Works 
> great for Urban areas, not so great for the suburbs.
> 
> Mark
>

From William at McHargue.Org  Fri Mar 14 18:28:37 2008
From: William at McHargue.Org (William McHargue)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:28:37 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Sprinter is Sprinting - Bike Strap Tie-Downs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.94.1205524919.359.sdcbc@bikesandiego.org>
References: <mailman.94.1205524919.359.sdcbc@bikesandiego.org>
Message-ID: <A3132A73-E0A1-4CDC-A227-06541A86B70B@McHargue.Org>


On Mar 14, 2008, at 13:01, Philip Erdelsky wrote:

> Despite the signs, you can't secure your bike in the bike area
> on the Sprinter. The NCTD Web site says bring your own straps,
> but there's nothing to strap them to.


Philip,

Thank you for a very informative post. Your reporting has given my a  
good idea of what to expect.

One thing, though I have yet to set foot (or wheel) on a Sprinter,  
your photograph clearly show bike strap tie-downs on what look like  
the arms between the seats right where the arrows of the "Secure Bike  
Here" sings point.

Thanks again for your post!


Bill.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080314/292413d0/attachment.html 

From pje at efgh.com  Fri Mar 14 19:25:33 2008
From: pje at efgh.com (Philip Erdelsky)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:25:33 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Inland Rail Trail Update
Message-ID: <47DB096D.9020606@efgh.com>

Before riding on the Sprinter yesterday (March 13), I rode the
completed portion of the Inland Rail Trail through San Marcos
and Escondido, something that I had previously done in December 2006.

This section is now complete, except for one tiny part next
to Barham Dr. which is still unpaved.

It's 6.66 miles long, according to my bicycle odometer. (Don't draw
any supernatural conclusions from that. My odometer is only about
90% accurate.)

Except for the pavement markings, most of the path resembles a
sidewalk along the south side of Mission Rd., and it used as such
by the locals. I saw as many pedestrians as bicyclists on the path.

The only part that really looks and feels like a separated bike path
is 1.79-mile part between Valpreda Rd. and Rancheros Dr. It's farther
from Mission Rd. and far enough below it so you can't see the road
from the path, or vice-versa. The Sprinter doesn't use this part --
it detours to CSUSM on a new spur. The path crosses the railroad
three times in this section on bike/ped grade crossings with signs
and signals, but no gates.

Mission Rd. retains its bike lanes, and serious bicyclists will want
to keep using it. However, one flaw, which I first noticed in 2006,
has still not been corrected. Where Mission Rd. passes under Highway 78,
signs direct eastbound cyclists in the bike lane right into a patch
of soft earth under the overpass. You'd be well advised to use the
path in that area.

Photographs:

      http://www.efgh.com/bike/irtsign.jpg  snazzy trail sign
      http://www.efgh.com/bike/irt2.jpg
      http://www.efgh.com/bike/irt3.jpg
      http://www.efgh.com/bike/irt4.jpg
      http://www.efgh.com/bike/irt5.jpg
      http://www.efgh.com/bike/irt6.jpg
      http://www.efgh.com/bike/irt7.jpg

A detailed description is included in

      http://www.efgh.com/bike/redroute.htm

-- Philip Erdelsky

From pje at efgh.com  Fri Mar 14 19:37:33 2008
From: pje at efgh.com (Philip Erdelsky)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:37:33 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Sprinter is Sprinting - Bike Strap Tie-Downs
In-Reply-To: <A3132A73-E0A1-4CDC-A227-06541A86B70B@McHargue.Org>
References: <mailman.94.1205524919.359.sdcbc@bikesandiego.org>
	<A3132A73-E0A1-4CDC-A227-06541A86B70B@McHargue.Org>
Message-ID: <47DB0C3D.7080208@efgh.com>

William McHargue wrote:
 >
 > On Mar 14, 2008, at 13:01, Philip Erdelsky wrote:
 >
 >> Despite the signs, you can't secure your bike in the bike area
 >> on the Sprinter. The NCTD Web site says bring your own straps,
 >> but there's nothing to strap them to.
 >
 >
 > Philip,
 >
 > Thank you for a very informative post. Your reporting has given my a
 > good idea of what to expect.
 >
 > One thing, though I have yet to set foot (or wheel) on a Sprinter, your
 > photograph clearly show bike strap tie-downs on what look like the arms
 > between the seats right where the arrows of the "Secure Bike Here" sings
 > point.
 >
 > Thanks again for your post!
 >


I didn't examine the area closely. It's possible that there
are some hooks or loops, but nothing like on the Coaster.
Other bicyclists on the car (who left before I snapped the
photograph) weren't using straps.

The next time I ride the Sprinter, I'll look more closely
and let you know what I find.

-- Philip Erdelsky


From pje at efgh.com  Fri Mar 14 19:43:58 2008
From: pje at efgh.com (Philip Erdelsky)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:43:58 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Sprinter is Smooooth
Message-ID: <47DB0DBE.5060100@efgh.com>

One thing I forgot to mention about the Sprinter. It has
a much smoother ride than the Coaster.

-- Philip Erdelsky


From serge at issakov.org  Fri Mar 14 19:45:30 2008
From: serge at issakov.org (Serge Issakov)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:45:30 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Inland Rail Trail Update
In-Reply-To: <47DB096D.9020606@efgh.com>
References: <47DB096D.9020606@efgh.com>
Message-ID: <69ec985b0803141645m6991bfacof82d1198fb9cbad4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Philip Erdelsky <pje at efgh.com> wrote:

>
>
> Mission Rd. retains its bike lanes, and serious bicyclists will want
> to keep using it. However, one flaw, which I first noticed in 2006,
> has still not been corrected. Where Mission Rd. passes under Highway 78,
> signs direct eastbound cyclists in the bike lane right into a patch
> of soft earth under the overpass. You'd be well advised to use the
> path in that area.
>
> Photographs:
>
> <snip> <http://www.efgh.com/bike/irt2.jpg>
>      http://www.efgh.com/bike/irt3.jpg


Alternatively, what is likely to be taught in a LAB course is to
look back and merge into a lane-controlling position in the right traffic
lane, negotiating as required, early enough so that you have safely
and clearly established a conspicuous lane-controlling position before
reaching the point where the guard rails starts in the photo.  That right
traffic lane looks too narrow to safely share side-by-side with cars,
especially in the underpass with the k-rails apparently squeezing in.

I'm not sure what direction you'd be headed, but the only way I'd not use
that approach here is maybe if I was traveling right into a low sun, in
which
case I might use the path.

Serge
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/attachments/20080314/4dc200ee/attachment.html 

From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 15 09:32:49 2008
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 05:32:49 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Sprinter good!
Message-ID: <47DBD001.8060505@earthlink.net>

Dear SDCBCers:
	Sprinter GOOD! But don't take my word for it, because I've not ridden 
it yet. One of the new people at work figures riding to the Sprinter, 
taking the Coaster to Sorrento Valley, getting the Shuttle (the Route 89 
MTS doesn't want you to know about unless you work for QualComm or SAIC, 
as near as I can figure) up to Miramar area and riding his ancient but 
very clean Univega Alpina Pro MTB in would save him about four hundred 
bucks a month in gas....

Robert Leone


From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Sat Mar 15 10:10:41 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Sat, 1