[SDCBC] Fwd: MTC to study Idaho "stop-and-roll" law

[John Forester]

Rather interestingly, both of the cases that Mionske lists are cases in 
which the cyclist failed to yield to a train, and the first of those was 
in 1897, when trains were the fastest vehicles in the world. Of course, 
courts notoriously fail to consider the real world, living in their own 
world of only words, but even these early cases state the duty to look, 
judge, and yield if necessary, saying that the stop was to give time to 
do these things. And, I suppose that it should be obvious, these cases 
did not apply to highway stop signs, but to the railroad "crossbuck" 
sign. Given all the developments associated with motorization since, it 
has become obvious that it is necessary to creep out to the position 
from which a driver can see approaching traffic, no matter how far 
beyond the stop line that it. And, given that, so long as the creep is 
done so slowly that a yield may be done if approaching traffic is seen, 
the proper action has been taken.

It is my position that this is so well accepted in practice that there 
should be no special law for cyclists alone. That's because it is more 
valuable to consider that we obey the rules for all drivers of vehicles 
than to establish special treatments, which encourages the development 
of other special treatments that have, historically, and even now, do us 
harm.

Serge Issakov wrote:
> John,
>
> I don't know what type of bike Robertson was riding, but I agree with 
> Jon's reasoning.  Anyway, if you don't have Mionske's book yet 
> (hopefully it's only a matter of time), he had written on the topic of 
> stopping at velonews a few years before he published the book, here:
>
> http://www.velonews.com/article/3834
>
> Serge
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:46 AM, John Eldon <j.eldon at sbcglobal.net 
> <mailto:j.eldon at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
>
>     Was Robertson riding an ordinary, on which a trackstand would be
>     nearly impossible, and on which putting a foot down would require
>     a full dismount, or a safety cycle?
>
>     --- On *Thu, 6/19/08, Serge Issakov /<serge at issakov.org
>     <mailto:serge at issakov.org>>/* wrote:
>
>         ...  What /Robertson/ established was that a cyclist cannot
>         meet the requirement of the stop while riding round and round
>         in circles.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared 
> by any organization in which I am involved.
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-- 
John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
7585 Church St, Lemon Grove CA 91945
619-644-5481