From admin7 at cox.net  Tue Jul  1 12:53:35 2008
From: admin7 at cox.net (Jon Perkins)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:53:35 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
References: <5587089.380421214872641065.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web17-z02>
Message-ID: <002401c8db9b$00cfa080$0202fea9@pd.sannet.gov>

All,

This accident took place on the 56 bike trail this morning 7-1-08 at the SB 56 off ramp at ?Camino Del Sur?.   Just had enough time to pull out my camera and snap a shot after the ambulance hauled the rider away.  The rider in the picture is in the hospital and not expected to survive. 

The vehicle is a Roach Coach (lunch truck).

Lets be careful out there.

jp

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From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jul  1 16:37:53 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:37:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
In-Reply-To: <002401c8db9b$00cfa080$0202fea9@pd.sannet.gov>
Message-ID: <967234.26330.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Thanks for posting, Jon. The two-way bike path runs to the right of two right-turn-only lanes, despite SDCBC's pleas that it be engineered, albeit at higher cost, to avoid precisely this scenario. My condolences to the victim's family.

--- On Tue, 7/1/08, Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net> wrote:
From: Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net>
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
To: SDCBC at bikesandiego.org
Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 9:53 AM



 
 

All,
?
This accident?took place?on the 56 bike 
trail this morning 7-1-08?at the?SB 56 off ramp at ?Camino Del 
Sur?.?? Just had enough time to pull out my camera and snap a shot 
after the ambulance hauled the rider away.? The rider in the picture is in 
the hospital and not expected to survive.?
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From admin7 at cox.net  Tue Jul  1 16:41:54 2008
From: admin7 at cox.net (Jon Perkins)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:41:54 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
References: <967234.26330.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004f01c8dbba$e62c6bd0$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>

John,

That is correct about Camino Del Sur, I often do a convoluted U turn there to get back onto the bike lane.  However in this case, after looking at a map - I realized the street was Carmel Valley Road - also I think the truck was east bound on 56 turned right then was South Bound.

My humble apologies for the mix up.

jp


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Eldon 
  To: SDCBC at bikesandiego.org ; Jon Perkins 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................


        Thanks for posting, Jon. The two-way bike path runs to the right of two right-turn-only lanes, despite SDCBC's pleas that it be engineered, albeit at higher cost, to avoid precisely this scenario. My condolences to the victim's family.

        --- On Tue, 7/1/08, Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net> wrote:

          From: Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net>
          Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
          To: SDCBC at bikesandiego.org
          Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 9:53 AM


          All,

          This accident took place on the 56 bike trail this morning 7-1-08 at the SB 56 off ramp at ?Camino Del Sur?.   Just had enough time to pull out my camera and snap a shot after the ambulance hauled the rider away.  The rider in the picture is in the hospital and not expected to survive.  
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From pje at efgh.com  Tue Jul  1 22:10:51 2008
From: pje at efgh.com (Philip Erdelsky)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:10:51 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Livestrong Across America Ride
Message-ID: <1214964651.486ae3ab4b066@webmail.nethere.net>

The Livestrong Across America Ride began this morning at
Ye Olde Bicycle Cafe at 6792 University Ave. in San Diego.

Photo at http://www.efgh.com/temp/36567.jpg

-- 
Philip J. Erdelsky


From gcarman at san.rr.com  Wed Jul  2 10:42:07 2008
From: gcarman at san.rr.com (Gene Carman)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:42:07 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
In-Reply-To: <002401c8db9b$00cfa080$0202fea9@pd.sannet.gov>
References: <5587089.380421214872641065.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web17-z02>
	<002401c8db9b$00cfa080$0202fea9@pd.sannet.gov>
Message-ID: <20080702150531.XVCE2063.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@ppg1.san.rr.com>

Consider this, there is never a safe controlled time that a cyclist 
can leave the 56 bike path at those intersections to cross the street 
to the rest of the bike path.

When motorists have red lights for the offramps, they still turn 
right on red across the same area that cyclists are going to proceed, 
and of course when the lights are green motorists will turn right.

Never is there a controlled moment for a cyclist to 
cross...  cyclists must always look for safe gaps.  I find it just as 
safe to cross on a red as a green as I am fully responsible for my 
own personal safety no matter what the lights show.

No matter what the condition of the lights there, even when a "walk" 
signal is given, there is no control over motorists.  Walk signals 
provide a false sense of security.

Why does this situation occur?  Why is it that a walk signal does not 
also signal an unconditional stop to motorists?  This situation 
occurs all over town...  I have seen motorists honk at school 
children in a crosswalk, when those children were crossing with a 
"walk" signal.  "WALK" is merely an invitation to step before a right 
turning motorist that failed to actually stop before turning.

Pushing the button for walk on a bike path results in no additional 
safety for a cyclist...  or a ped.

Oh I know what the law says, but how many of you have watched right 
turning motorists come up to a red light, look left and then drive on 
without even glancing right?


At 09:53 AM 7/1/2008, Jon Perkins wrote:
>All,
>
>This accident took place on the 56 bike trail this morning 7-1-08 at 
>the SB 56 off ramp at ?Camino Del Sur?.   Just had enough time to 
>pull out my camera and snap a shot after the ambulance hauled the 
>rider away.  The rider in the picture is in the hospital and not 
>expected to survive.
>
>The vehicle is a Roach Coach (lunch truck).
>
>Lets be careful out there.
>
>jp
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do 
>not necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
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From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul  2 12:08:32 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 09:08:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
In-Reply-To: <20080702150531.XVCE2063.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@ppg1.san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <58125.90114.qm@web52509.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have two recommendations to make walking (and occasionally cycling, such as in this mis-engineered case) safer: 1) permit right turn on red from the curb lane only, never from additional right turn only or right turn optional lanes; 2) deploy more red right arrows.

John E.

--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Gene Carman <gcarman at san.rr.com> wrote:

 
Consider this, there is never a safe controlled time that a cyclist can
leave the 56 bike path at those intersections to cross the street to the
rest of the bike path.? 

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From econver at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 13:01:47 2008
From: econver at yahoo.com (Eric Converse)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 10:01:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
Message-ID: <559947.38331.qm@web56915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Why not make right turns on red illegal?  They are in all of the European Union (unless stated otherwise on a sign) and in Montreal.

Or, why not a full stop in every direction (especially, where there is a high density of ped/cycle traffic like near the 56 path).  Can't this be done?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red

Eric


----- Original Message ----
From: John Eldon <j.eldon at sbcglobal.net>
To: Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net>; SDCBC at bikesandiego.org; Gene Carman <gcarman at san.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:08:32 AM
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................


I have two recommendations to make walking (and occasionally cycling, such as in this mis-engineered case) safer: 1) permit right turn on red from the curb lane only, never from additional right turn only or right turn optional lanes; 2) deploy more red right arrows.

John E.

--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Gene Carman <gcarman at san.rr.com> wrote:

Consider this, there is never a safe controlled time that a cyclist can
leave the 56 bike path at those intersections to cross the street to the
rest of the bike path.  
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From markw at wolfenet.org  Wed Jul  2 13:52:59 2008
From: markw at wolfenet.org (markw)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:52:59 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
In-Reply-To: <559947.38331.qm@web56915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <559947.38331.qm@web56915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <486BC07B.9000705@wolfenet.org>

I like to turn right on red, after _STOPPING_ and checking traffic.  The 
problem is the drivers, not the traffic laws.  I about got nailed this 
morning in my car, in the LEFT lane by a gal who blew the stoplight and 
made a right turn into my lane.  She broke the law by not stopping.  The 
last thing we need are more laws.  It's amazing at how many people blow 
through red lights to make right turns.  No amount of traffic control 
laws are going to make an unsafe driver safe.  Example is this new 
glorious hands free law, the same drivers that'd run over you while on 
the phone will still run over you on the phone, except they'll have both 
hands on the wheel when they do it.  You can't outlaw stupid, and that's 
what our legislators are trying to do.

Mark

Eric Converse wrote:
> Why not make right turns on red illegal?  They are in all of the European Union (unless stated otherwise on a sign) and in Montreal.
> 
> Or, why not a full stop in every direction (especially, where there is a high density of ped/cycle traffic like near the 56 path).  Can't this be done?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red
> 
> Eric

From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Wed Jul  2 14:06:47 2008
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 14:06:47 EDT
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
Message-ID: <c5a.34f41a4a.359d1db7@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/2/2008 10:54:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
markw at wolfenet.org writes:

> She broke the law by not stopping.  The 
> last thing we need are more laws. 

This is not another law, it is a refinement of an existing law.  Personally I 
like the European method, illegal unless there is a sign stating otherwise.  
The advantage of this is that people develop the attitude that they must stop 
and wait rather than the attitude that they are free to make the right and so 
develop the habit of running such signs.

It is much better to have someone waiting when they could go rather than 
going when they should be waiting.  North Torrey Pines south bound at La Jolla 
Shores has a "No Right Turn on Red" sign but many people miss it.

The missing factor traffic control is enforcement.   In my subjective 
experience, it seems that the number of traffic officers and the number of tickets 
written has gone down considerably since the 1960's.  If people were given 
tickets for unsafe lane changes, running stop signs, running stop lights, following 
too close, speeding, etc. etc...  

Jon


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.
      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Wed Jul  2 15:18:24 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:18:24 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Volunteer night next Wednesday July 9th
Message-ID: <00b401c8dc78$665ac4b0$33104e10$@org>

We're having our volunteer night next Wednesday, July 9, 6:30 to 8:30p.m. at
the Coalition office - 740 13th St, Suite 220. We'll be folding membership
renewals, talking bicycling, and consuming yummy food and beverages. You
don't want to miss it.

Hope to see you there!

Kathy

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

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From big50_1 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 20:03:25 2008
From: big50_1 at yahoo.com (Big50_1@yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:03:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
In-Reply-To: <c5a.34f41a4a.359d1db7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <999779.77114.qm@web34503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I totally agree with the concept that more laws do not help but enforcement does.? I went to Philadelphia, PA a couple of years ago for a visit and was amazed at how the?drivers there "jump" the red light (start early while light red) when waiting for a traffic light to go from red to green when going across the?top of a "T" intersection.? I'm being honked at because the light was red, was going to change and I was not in motion.? Sheesh!!? The local police have allowed the populace to get away with that?bad driving habit. -- With respect to CA, whenever I'm crossing a street on bike either with a light or after coming to a stop then starting across, I always make sure the drivers on the cross street have stopped before I go into their lane.? Nothing is perfect, I could be blindsided, but the effort is there. 

--- On Wed, 7/2/08, JonIsaacs at aol.com <JonIsaacs at aol.com> wrote:

From: JonIsaacs at aol.com <JonIsaacs at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
To: SDCBC at bikesandiego.org
Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 11:06 AM


In a message dated 7/2/2008 10:54:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, markw at wolfenet.org writes:


She broke the law by not stopping.? The 
last thing we need are more laws. 

This is not another law, it is a refinement of an existing law.? Personally I like the European method, illegal unless there is a sign stating otherwise.? The advantage of this is that people develop the attitude that they must stop and wait rather than the attitude that they are free to make the right and so develop the habit of running such signs.

It is much better to have someone waiting when they could go rather than going when they should be waiting.? North Torrey Pines south bound at La Jolla Shores has a "No Right Turn on Red" sign but many people miss it.

The missing factor traffic control is enforcement.?? In my subjective experience, it seems that the number of traffic officers and the number of tickets written has gone down considerably since the 1960's.? If people were given tickets for unsafe lane changes, running stop signs, running stop lights, following too close, speeding, etc. etc...? 

Jon


**************
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) _______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as big50_1 at yahoo.com
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not
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For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
postmaster at stickman-computing.org


      
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From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Wed Jul  2 20:53:02 2008
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 20:53:02 EDT
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
Message-ID: <c75.31324c54.359d7cee@aol.com>



In a message dated 7/2/2008 5:11:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
big50_1 at yahoo.com writes:

I totally agree with the concept that more laws do not  help but enforcement 
does.
 
My thinking is that one needs both laws and enforcement.   As far  as whether 
or not we need more laws, I will simply say we need a realistic set  of laws 
that are enforced.   
 
Jon



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
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From keli.dailey at uniontrib.com  Wed Jul  2 20:10:20 2008
From: keli.dailey at uniontrib.com (keli.dailey at uniontrib.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:10:20 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
In-Reply-To: <559947.38331.qm@web56915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <559947.38331.qm@web56915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ED50683524A6A0479EC8DDD35E74C9FF055DEEB6@DESI.hollywood.sduniontrib.com>

Does anyone have news about a potential fatality from last month's
Critical Mass?

________________________________

From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org
[mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org] On Behalf Of Eric Converse
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 10:02 AM
To: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net; Jon Perkins; SDCBC at bikesandiego.org; Gene
Carman
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................


Why not make right turns on red illegal?  They are in all of the
European Union (unless stated otherwise on a sign) and in Montreal.

Or, why not a full stop in every direction (especially, where there is a
high density of ped/cycle traffic like near the 56 path).  Can't this be
done?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red

Eric


----- Original Message ----
From: John Eldon <j.eldon at sbcglobal.net>
To: Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net>; SDCBC at bikesandiego.org; Gene Carman
<gcarman at san.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:08:32 AM
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................


I have two recommendations to make walking (and occasionally cycling,
such as in this mis-engineered case) safer: 1) permit right turn on red
from the curb lane only, never from additional right turn only or right
turn optional lanes; 2) deploy more red right arrows.

John E.

--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Gene Carman <gcarman at san.rr.com> wrote:


	Consider this, there is never a safe controlled time that a
cyclist can leave the 56 bike path at those intersections to cross the
street to the rest of the bike path.  
	
	

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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Thu Jul  3 15:17:49 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:17:49 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Call for Midnight Madness Photos
Message-ID: <009c01c8dd41$7df32a80$79d97f80$@org>


Hello 2007 Midnight Madness Riders,

We are putting out a call for 2007 Midnight Madness Photos. Our photographer
lost her camera in a river soon after the ride last year so we have no
photos!!
 
San Diego Family Magazine would like to do a story on Midnight Madness and
they need a family oriented Midnight Madness photo. If we choose to use your
photo you will get a free pass to ride in 2008! **(YOU MUST GIVE HOSTELLING
INTERNATIONAL OFFICIAL PERMISSION TO USE THE PHOTO!)

And please note that we would also appreciate ANY Midnight Madness Photos
since we don't have any! 

Please email photos to tolson at sandiegohostels.org

Thank you!!!! 

-Tiffany Olson
Midnight Madness Coordinator
		


From JimBaross at cox.net  Fri Jul  4 16:58:02 2008
From: JimBaross at cox.net (Jim Baross)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:58:02 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] making garage space - selling some bikes
Message-ID: <20080705153737.UBVA6684.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

Commuter or whatever bikes that have become extra: a Bike Friday New 
World Tourist type and a two 3-speed Dahons.

See craigslist for listings.

Jim (



From jptalner at earthlink.net  Sat Jul  5 13:38:11 2008
From: jptalner at earthlink.net (judith talner)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 10:38:11 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Volunteer night next Wednesday July 9th
In-Reply-To: <00b401c8dc78$665ac4b0$33104e10$@org>
Message-ID: <23957C6C-4AB9-11DD-B4CE-000A95667CC6@earthlink.net>

I will bring refreshments.  Judy
On Wednesday, July 2, 2008, at 12:18 PM, Kathy Keehan wrote:

> We?re having our volunteer night next Wednesday, July 9, 6:30 to 
> 8:30p.m. at the Coalition office ? 740 13th St, Suite 220. We?ll be 
> folding membership renewals, talking bicycling, and consuming yummy 
> food and beverages. You don?t want to miss it.
>
> Hope to see you there!
>
> Kathy
>
> ?
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Kathy Keehan
>
> Executive Director
>
> San Diego County Bicycle Coalition
>
> P.O. Box 34544
>
> San Diego, CA 92163
>
> 858.487.6063
>
> execdir at sdcbc.org
>
> www.sdcbc.org
>
> ?
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as jptalner at earthlink.net
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at 
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not 
> necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
> e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

From JimBaross at cox.net  Sat Jul  5 14:59:00 2008
From: JimBaross at cox.net (Jim Baross)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2008 11:59:00 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] making garage space - selling some bikes
In-Reply-To: <20080705153737.UBVA6684.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01
	.cox.net>
References: <20080705153737.UBVA6684.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20080705190526.HUNB774.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>

Whoops! All sold this morning.

At 01:58 PM 7/4/2008, you wrote:
>Commuter or whatever bikes that have become extra: a Bike Friday New
>World Tourist type and a two 3-speed Dahons.
>
>See craigslist for listings.
>
>Jim




From big50_1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 12:27:12 2008
From: big50_1 at yahoo.com (Big50_1@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 09:27:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Tandem Rentals
Message-ID: <637628.71779.qm@web34507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

My wife and I are interested in renting a road or mtb-type tandem to check out tandem riding.??If anyone?knows of?rental shops that have decent machines, would appreciate?the info.? Thanks, Lee 


      
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From dwhite7 at san.rr.com  Mon Jul  7 13:37:02 2008
From: dwhite7 at san.rr.com (dwhite7 at san.rr.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 10:37:02 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Tandem Rentals
Message-ID: <21483142.843221215452223097.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web10-z02>

Wheel Fun Rentals has a few Burleys, check at Embarcadero location.
http://www.wheelfunrentals.com/Content/Home.aspx
Dave White

---- "Big50_1 at yahoo.com" <big50_1 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> My wife and I are interested in renting a road or mtb-type tandem to check out tandem riding.??If anyone?knows of?rental shops that have decent machines, would appreciate?the info.? Thanks, Lee 





From serge at issakov.org  Mon Jul  7 18:31:36 2008
From: serge at issakov.org (Serge Issakov)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 15:31:36 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
In-Reply-To: <004f01c8dbba$e62c6bd0$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>
References: <967234.26330.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<004f01c8dbba$e62c6bd0$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>
Message-ID: <69ec985b0807071531v3f9d7e60pe395b5cd2b7168e4@mail.gmail.com>

About two years ago, on 6/22/06, Tom Lettington posted the following about
the 56 path interchange at Black Mountain Road, which is very similar:

"Sooner or later someone is going to get killed at that place."

Link: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/2006-June/000075.html

Serge

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net> wrote:

>  John,
>
> That is correct about Camino Del Sur, I often do a convoluted U turn there
> to get back onto the bike lane.  However in this case, after looking at a
> map - I realized the street was Carmel Valley Road - also I think the truck
> was east bound on 56 turned right then was South Bound.
>
> My humble apologies for the mix up.
>
> jp
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John Eldon <j.eldon at sbcglobal.net>
> *To:* SDCBC at bikesandiego.org ; Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:37 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
>
>   Thanks for posting, Jon. The two-way bike path runs to the right of two
> right-turn-only lanes, despite SDCBC's pleas that it be engineered, albeit
> at higher cost, to avoid precisely this scenario. My condolences to the
> victim's family.
>
> --- On *Tue, 7/1/08, Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net>* wrote:
>
> From: Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net>
> Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
> To: SDCBC at bikesandiego.org
> Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 9:53 AM
>
>  All,
>
> This accident took place on the 56 bike trail this morning 7-1-08 at the SB
> 56 off ramp at ?Camino Del Sur?.   Just had enough time to pull out my
> camera and snap a shot after the ambulance hauled the rider away.  The rider
> in the picture is in the hospital and not expected to survive.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as serge at issakov.org
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not
> necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
> postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>



-- 
NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved.
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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Mon Jul  7 19:38:48 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 16:38:48 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
In-Reply-To: <69ec985b0807071531v3f9d7e60pe395b5cd2b7168e4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <967234.26330.qm@web52510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<004f01c8dbba$e62c6bd0$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>
	<69ec985b0807071531v3f9d7e60pe395b5cd2b7168e4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c8e08a$9b5d22a0$d21767e0$@org>

They did change the signal timing at Black Mountain Road at the 56. Before
the bike/ped signal was white when the traffic was coming off the freeway
and turning across the path crossing. Now it is white when the southbound
Black Mountain Road traffic has the protected left turn onto the eastbound
56 onramp. It works much better, although I'm not sure how we will stop
eastbound bicyclists from crossing when the light for the freeway off-ramp
traffic is green. 

I think the phasing is working much better, but I'd be interested in other
people's impressions of the new setup.

Kathy

 

From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org [mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]
On Behalf Of Serge Issakov
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 3:32 PM
To: SDCBC at bikesandiego.org
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................

 

About two years ago, on 6/22/06, Tom Lettington posted the following about
the 56 path interchange at Black Mountain Road, which is very similar:

"Sooner or later someone is going to get killed at that place."

Link: http://www.bikesandiego.org/pipermail/sdcbc/2006-June/000075.html

Serge

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net> wrote:

John,

 

That is correct about Camino Del Sur, I often do a convoluted U turn there
to get back onto the bike lane.  However in this case, after looking at a
map - I realized the street was Carmel Valley Road - also I think the truck
was east bound on 56 turned right then was South Bound.

 

My humble apologies for the mix up.

 

jp

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: John Eldon <mailto:j.eldon at sbcglobal.net>  

To: SDCBC at bikesandiego.org ; Jon Perkins <mailto:admin7 at cox.net>  

Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 1:37 PM

Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................

 


Thanks for posting, Jon. The two-way bike path runs to the right of two
right-turn-only lanes, despite SDCBC's pleas that it be engineered, albeit
at higher cost, to avoid precisely this scenario. My condolences to the
victim's family.

--- On Tue, 7/1/08, Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net> wrote:

From: Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net>
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
To: SDCBC at bikesandiego.org
Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 9:53 AM

All,

 

This accident took place on the 56 bike trail this morning 7-1-08 at the SB
56 off ramp at ?Camino Del Sur?.   Just had enough time to pull out my
camera and snap a shot after the ambulance hauled the rider away.  The rider
in the picture is in the hospital and not expected to survive. 


_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as serge at issakov.org
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not
necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
postmaster at stickman-computing.org




-- 
NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved. 

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From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul  7 21:29:50 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 18:29:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
In-Reply-To: <001d01c8e08a$9b5d22a0$d21767e0$@org>
Message-ID: <23949.20847.qm@web52505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

As long as they have two (or more) right lanes and permit right-turn-on-red from both, we are going to endanger pedestrians. As long as they put through bike paths or bke lanes to the right of right-turn-only lanes, we are going to endanger cyclists. The only band-aid I could endorse is a Denver-style all-red traffic signal cycle in which no motor vehicle movements are permitted, but pedestrians and bicyclists can cross in any desired direction. Yes, I know it reduces us to pedestrian behavior, but the damage was already done when the road and bike path were [mis]configured.

--- On Mon, 7/7/08, Kathy Keehan <execdir at sdcbc.org> wrote:
From: Kathy Keehan <execdir at sdcbc.org>
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
To: "'Serge Issakov'" <serge at issakov.org>, SDCBC at bikesandiego.org
Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 4:38 PM




 
 






They did change the signal timing at Black Mountain Road at the
56. Before the bike/ped signal was white when the traffic was coming off the
freeway and turning across the path crossing. Now it is white when the
southbound Black Mountain Road traffic has the protected left turn onto the
eastbound 56 onramp. It works much better, although I?m not sure how we
will stop eastbound bicyclists from crossing when the light for the freeway off-ramp
traffic is green.  

I think the phasing is working much better, but I?d be
interested in other people?s impressions of the new setup. 

Kathy
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From jhotchkiss at cox.net  Mon Jul  7 22:19:23 2008
From: jhotchkiss at cox.net (Jim Hotchkiss)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:19:23 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Tandem Rentals
In-Reply-To: <21483142.843221215452223097.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web10-z02>
References: <21483142.843221215452223097.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web10-z02>
Message-ID: <B795CC9B-294A-4D01-AC95-264AD094BF9A@cox.net>

I was interested in trying a recumbent bicycle and found one for rent  
at Holland's Bicycles in Coronado.

They also rent tandems and the Silver Strand is a very good dedicated  
path to test out-of-the-norm equipment on.

I would give Holland's Bicycles a strong recommendation.

http://hollandsbicycles.com/


JimH


On Jul 7, 2008, at 10:37 AM, <dwhite7 at san.rr.com>  
<dwhite7 at san.rr.com> wrote:

> Wheel Fun Rentals has a few Burleys, check at Embarcadero location.
> http://www.wheelfunrentals.com/Content/Home.aspx
> Dave White
>
> ---- "Big50_1 at yahoo.com" <big50_1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> My wife and I are interested in renting a road or mtb-type tandem  
>> to check out tandem riding.  If anyone knows of rental shops that  
>> have decent machines, would appreciate the info.  Thanks, Lee
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as jhotchkiss at cox.net
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http:// 
> www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman- 
> computing.org/aup
> Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do  
> not necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e- 
> mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

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From jhotchkiss at cox.net  Mon Jul  7 22:55:52 2008
From: jhotchkiss at cox.net (Jim Hotchkiss)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:55:52 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Input sought for cyclists in routes throughout city
In-Reply-To: <B795CC9B-294A-4D01-AC95-264AD094BF9A@cox.net>
References: <21483142.843221215452223097.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web10-z02>
	<B795CC9B-294A-4D01-AC95-264AD094BF9A@cox.net>
Message-ID: <EC290E32-1F76-46BE-A4D8-19716240139D@cox.net>

Nice blurb in today's SD Union Tribune asking for all San Diego-area  
bicyclists to weigh in with their opinions on local bicycle planning.

If nothing else, the survey gives you an opportunity to voice your  
concerns.

I found it somewhat liberating.

http://www.altaprojects.net/sandag/Public_Involvement.html

I give them credit for asking the questions.

JimH



The Pacific Highway/Barnett Drive merge going south, a designated  
bike route?  At least I vented.
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From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Tue Jul  8 08:19:50 2008
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 08:19:50 EDT
Subject: [SDCBC] Why you should look both ways.................
Message-ID: <c23.3eb8544b.35a4b566@aol.com>



In a message dated 7/7/2008 6:31:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
j.eldon at sbcglobal.net writes:

As long  as they put through bike paths or bke lanes to the right of 
right-turn-only  lanes, we are going to endanger cyclists
 
Bike Lanes and Bike Paths that are to the right of Right Turn Lanes are a  
problem, a glaring indication that someone screwed up.  In my view, they  are 
one of the best arguments against bike lanes because, rather than  encouraging 
and teaching proper lane positioning, they encourage the  non-thinking cyclist 
to engage in risky behavior.
 
I suggest though that rather than putting a band-aid on it with yet  another 
law, the better approach is to fix the existing misplaced bike lanes and  
teach cyclists to look ahead and position themselves properly.  If the  
pedestrians are at risk, lights that are marked NO TURN ON RED and give the  pedestrian 
a good head start seem reasonable in many situations    especially with some 
added enforcement

jon
 
 



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for 
fuel-efficient used cars.      (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
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From gcarman at san.rr.com  Tue Jul  8 11:22:32 2008
From: gcarman at san.rr.com (Gene Carman)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 08:22:32 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Input sought for cyclists in routes throughout city
In-Reply-To: <EC290E32-1F76-46BE-A4D8-19716240139D@cox.net>
References: <21483142.843221215452223097.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web10-z02>
	<B795CC9B-294A-4D01-AC95-264AD094BF9A@cox.net>
	<EC290E32-1F76-46BE-A4D8-19716240139D@cox.net>
Message-ID: <20080708154554.CFBJ9879.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@ppg1.san.rr.com>


I wonder if a summation of this survey is going to be made public?

BTW the link you included actually points to hollands bicycle.

At 07:55 PM 7/7/2008, Jim Hotchkiss wrote:
>Nice blurb in today's SD Union Tribune asking for all San Diego-area 
>bicyclists to weigh in with their opinions on local bicycle planning.
>
>If nothing else, the survey gives you an opportunity to voice your concerns.
>
>I found it somewhat liberating.
>
><http://hollandsbicycles.com/>http://www.altaprojects.net/sandag/Public_Involvement.html
>
>I give them credit for asking the questions.
>
>JimH
>
>
>
>The Pacific Highway/Barnett Drive merge going south, a designated 
>bike route?  At least I vented.
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do 
>not necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
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From danettehoffert at gmail.com  Tue Jul  8 12:01:18 2008
From: danettehoffert at gmail.com (Danette Hoffert)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 09:01:18 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] signs for busy bike areas/hopefully upright
Message-ID: <1dfe83a00807080901o72a40978p3557959bf3fe55f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kathy,
These signs are (were) along a busy bike area along the road near Mesa
Housing by UCSD campus.  I think these signs have a powerful impact, when
upright that is.  I like the signage even more than the, "share the road,"
signs. Something like this along the 101 Coast and near bike routes would be
great.

BTW, Hopefully the sign was hit while avoiding a pedestrian or bicyclist!

-- 
Danette
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From jhotchkiss at cox.net  Tue Jul  8 13:19:54 2008
From: jhotchkiss at cox.net (jhotchkiss at cox.net)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 10:19:54 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Input sought for cyclists in routes throughout city
In-Reply-To: <20080708154554.CFBJ9879.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@ppg1.san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080708131954.T2CUV.543862.imail@fed1rmwml29>

This link should work.

http://www.altaprojects.net/sandag/Public_Involvement.html

Worth the time to fill out.

JimH

From wmalma54 at cox.net  Tue Jul  8 21:33:26 2008
From: wmalma54 at cox.net (William Riggs)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 18:33:26 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] East County to Bonita Bike Path
In-Reply-To: <002601c70ccf$2e313990$6401a8c0@KathyDell>
Message-ID: <000601c8e163$c9077460$6401a8c0@desktop>

FYI
Today I rode from El Cajon to Bonita via Quarry Road.  This allowed me to
avoid Paradise Valley Road and the traffic along that route.

Right now Quarry Road is closed and there is a gate at the north end near
Elkelton Blvd that may be locked at times, it was open today.  The road
seems to be used only as a service road and does not appear that it will be
reopened as a roadway.  

My point is this.  Whether this will be used as road for through traffic or
not it would make a great bikeway between East County and South Bay.  It
allows you to avoid traffic and congested intersections and makes for a more
direct route between the two areas.

If this is not already on you hit list for possible new bike paths it might
be worth a look.

Bill Riggs
Veterans Administration


From stephanvance at cox.net  Wed Jul  9 01:10:12 2008
From: stephanvance at cox.net (Stephan Vance)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 22:10:12 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Input sought for cyclists in routes throughout city
In-Reply-To: <20080708154554.CFBJ9879.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@ppg1.san.rr.com>
References: <21483142.843221215452223097.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web10-z02><B795CC9B-294A-4D01-AC95-264AD094BF9A@cox.net><EC290E32-1F76-46BE-A4D8-19716240139D@cox.net>
	<20080708154554.CFBJ9879.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@ppg1.san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <006d01c8e182$10cc9460$6401a8c0@D9CXGJ41>

The results of the public survey will be recorded and reported back to the
community. Look for notices from the Bike Coalition or check the Web site.
Also look for opportunities to comment on the plan once it's the draft is
developed.

 

Stephan Vance

 

  _____  

From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org [mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]
On Behalf Of Gene Carman
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:23 AM
To: Jim Hotchkiss; sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Input sought for cyclists in routes throughout city

 


I wonder if a summation of this survey is going to be made public?  

BTW the link you included actually points to hollands bicycle. 

At 07:55 PM 7/7/2008, Jim Hotchkiss wrote:



Nice blurb in today's SD Union Tribune asking for all San Diego-area
bicyclists to weigh in with their opinions on local bicycle planning.

If nothing else, the survey gives you an opportunity to voice your concerns.

I found it somewhat liberating.

http://www.altaprojects.net/sandag/Public_Involvement.html
<http://hollandsbicycles.com/> 

I give them credit for asking the questions.

JimH



The Pacific Highway/Barnett Drive merge going south, a designated bike
route?  At least I vented.
_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not
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For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
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From thomas.treynolds at gmail.com  Wed Jul  9 13:13:28 2008
From: thomas.treynolds at gmail.com (Thomas Reynolds)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 10:13:28 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] East County to Bonita Bike Path
In-Reply-To: <000601c8e163$c9077460$6401a8c0@desktop>
References: <002601c70ccf$2e313990$6401a8c0@KathyDell>
	<000601c8e163$c9077460$6401a8c0@desktop>
Message-ID: <998c822f0807091013x34417c2fh5b308062bec13c30@mail.gmail.com>

I can add that, prior to the construction, it was my preferred way to
get from Bonita to Spring Valley.

As I understand, it was to be opened for bicycles when construction is
complete.  Others on the list may know better.

Tom
thomas.treynolds at gmail.com

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 6:33 PM, William Riggs <wmalma54 at cox.net> wrote:
> FYI
> Today I rode from El Cajon to Bonita via Quarry Road.  This allowed me to
> avoid Paradise Valley Road and the traffic along that route.
>
> Right now Quarry Road is closed and there is a gate at the north end near
> Elkelton Blvd that may be locked at times, it was open today.  The road
> seems to be used only as a service road and does not appear that it will be
> reopened as a roadway.
>
> My point is this.  Whether this will be used as road for through traffic or
> not it would make a great bikeway between East County and South Bay.  It
> allows you to avoid traffic and congested intersections and makes for a more
> direct route between the two areas.
>
> If this is not already on you hit list for possible new bike paths it might
> be worth a look.
>
> Bill Riggs
> Veterans Administration
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as thomas.treynolds at gmail.com
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>

From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 11 08:24:19 2008
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 05:24:19 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.
Message-ID: <487750F3.5090606@earthlink.net>

Dear SDCbCers:
	Try not to laugh, but when I was remonstrating with a fellow on an old 
Honda C70 motorscooter to not ride on the Rose Canyonb Bike Path, my 
strongest argument was that if it WERE meant for motorized vehicles it 
wouldn't have those blind spots.
	Suggestions would be appreciated.
Robert Leone


From markw at wolfenet.org  Fri Jul 11 11:39:19 2008
From: markw at wolfenet.org (markw)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:39:19 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.
In-Reply-To: <487750F3.5090606@earthlink.net>
References: <487750F3.5090606@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <48777EA7.1040708@wolfenet.org>

Blind spots are a pretty weak argument. You can very well have 2 
cyclists approaching that turn from opposite directions both doing 20 
give or take, giving a 40mph closing speed.

He may be suffering the same issues cyclists do through there, not being 
able to use the freeway. He's probably taking the path as there's no 
alternative other than to go miles out of his way.  Man, this argument 
sounds familiar. :)

Mark



Robert Leone wrote:
> Dear SDCbCers:
> 	Try not to laugh, but when I was remonstrating with a fellow on an old 
> Honda C70 motorscooter to not ride on the Rose Canyonb Bike Path, my 
> strongest argument was that if it WERE meant for motorized vehicles it 
> wouldn't have those blind spots.
> 	Suggestions would be appreciated.
> Robert Leone

From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Fri Jul 11 12:13:53 2008
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:13:53 EDT
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.
Message-ID: <d08.3b8d07e8.35a8e0c1@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/11/2008 5:27:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
rob_leone at earthlink.net writes:

> Dear SDCbCers:
>   Try not to laugh, but when I was remonstrating with a fellow on an old 
> Honda C70 motorscooter to not ride on the Rose Canyonb Bike Path, my 
> strongest argument was that if it WERE meant for motorized vehicles it 
> wouldn't have those blind spots.
>   Suggestions would be appreciated.
> Robert Leone

Rob:

I have observed several motorbikes, electric bicycles etc using the Rose 
Canyon Bike path.  It does bother me at times and as far as I have been able to 
determine, it is illegal.

However I have decided to try to change my attitude.  So that while it is 
illegal, I think that as long as they are riding in a courteous and safe manner, 
I think it OUGHT to be legal.  As Mark has said, people operating such 
vehicles face the same issues as cyclists and IMHO such vehicles will be part of the 
transportation solution of the future.

Of course the difficulty is that as long as the numbers are small and the 
riders reasonable, then they do not present a traffic issue.  On the other hand, 
if suddenly there were considerable numbers so such vehicles became a 
significant part of the traffic load, then there would be real issues and one speeding 
small motorcycle could wreck havoc.   Many cyclists ride the Rose Canyon path 
at speeds greater than a motorized bicycle is capable of but many do not.   

Just thinking out loud...  

What to say...  "You know you are not supposed to be here so you better be 
considerate and very careful."  ????


Jon


**************
Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live 
music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
      
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From econver at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 13:58:08 2008
From: econver at yahoo.com (Eric Converse)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.
Message-ID: <746402.43873.qm@web56908.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

There are specific laws regarding this matter.  Low-power electric bicycles and motor scooters (capable of speeds less than 20mph) are allowed on those paths.  In some states the speed is higher.  However, in California the law specifically states 20mph and less.  I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea that our legal electric bicycles are not allowed on all of the same pathways as normal bicycles.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#California

Excerpt from the article on wikipedia:
TEA-21 and SAFETEA-LU[clarify] Specify that legal Ebikes, as defined above, are legal on urban bicycle
trail systems getting any federal funding unless states or local
entities have passed laws specifically dis-allowing electric assist
bicycles. Under Federal Law, Ebikes are NOT considered motor vehicles
unless the state or local entity has passed a law otherwise.

There is a misconception that when "motor vehicles" or "motorized
vehicles" are disallowed by law or by signage, that this always means
ebikes are illegal on trails. This is untrue in many states; these
terms do not include "legal low power electric assist bicycles", and
can only be banned by passing a specific state or local law. (See
TEA-21 Federal DOT Law)

Best regards,

Eric Converse
ATIV Solutions LLC
www.ativsolutions.com


----- Original Message ----
From: "JonIsaacs at aol.com" <JonIsaacs at aol.com>
To: rob_leone at earthlink.net; sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:13:53 AM
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.

In a message dated 7/11/2008 5:27:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rob_leone at earthlink.net writes:


Dear SDCbCers:
  Try not to laugh, but when I was remonstrating with a fellow on an old 
Honda C70 motorscooter to not ride on the Rose Canyonb Bike Path, my 
strongest argument was that if it WERE meant for motorized vehicles it 
wouldn't have those blind spots.
  Suggestions would be appreciated.
Robert Leone

Rob:

I have observed several motorbikes, electric bicycles etc using the Rose Canyon Bike path.  It does bother me at times and as far as I have been able to determine, it is illegal.

However I have decided to try to change my attitude.  So that while it is illegal, I think that as long as they are riding in a courteous and safe manner, I think it OUGHT to be legal.  As Mark has said, people operating such vehicles face the same issues as cyclists and IMHO such vehicles will be part of the transportation solution of the future.

Of course the difficulty is that as long as the numbers are small and the riders reasonable, then they do not present a traffic issue.  On the other hand, if suddenly there were considerable numbers so such vehicles became a significant part of the traffic load, then there would be real issues and one speeding small motorcycle could wreck havoc.   Many cyclists ride the Rose Canyon path at speeds greater than a motorized bicycle is capable of but many do not.   

Just thinking out loud...  

What to say...  "You know you are not supposed to be here so you better be considerate and very careful."  ????


Jon


**************
Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
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From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Fri Jul 11 15:08:08 2008
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:08:08 EDT
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.
Message-ID: <bbb.3014e5ae.35a90998@aol.com>

In a message dated 7/11/2008 11:06:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
econver at yahoo.com writes:

> >>>There are specific laws regarding this matter.  Low-power electric 
> bicycles and motor scooters (capable of speeds less than 20mph) are allowed on 
> those paths.  In some states the speed is higher.  However, in California the 
> law specifically states 20mph and less.  I don't want anyone to get the wrong 
> idea that our legal electric bicycles are not allowed on all of the same 
> pathways as normal bicycles.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#California


-----------------------------

> 
> 
> 

My understanding is that motorized bicycles are allowed in bike lanes but not 
on bike paths.  Searching the DMV website, this is what I found:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21207_5.htm


"Motorized Bicycles: Prohibited Operation21207.5.??Notwithstanding Sections 
21207 and 23127 of this code, or any other provision of law, no motorized 
bicycle may be operated on a bicycle path or trail, bikeway, bicycle lane 
established pursuant to Section 21207, equestrian trail, or hiking or recreational 
trail, unless it is within or adjacent to a roadway or unless the local authority 
or the governing body of a public agency having jurisdiction over such path or 
trail permits, by ordinance, such operation. 

Amended Ch. 373, Stats. 1979. Effective January 1, 1980."

Since the federal law allows for state and local governments to override the 
requirement that federally funded bikeways be restricted as they so choose, it 
seems to me motorized bikes are not allowed.

Hopefully Jim, Kathy or some can help clarify this. 

??











**************
Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music 
scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
      
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
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From econver at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 17:08:08 2008
From: econver at yahoo.com (Eric Converse)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:08:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.
Message-ID: <603774.30347.qm@web56911.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Moreover, Federal law states the following:

SAFETEA-LU is a 2005 Federal Re-authorization of the 1990s TEA-21, and
renews the exclusion of legal ebikes from the classification of 'motor
vehicles' from urban trail use unless a specific local ebike statute is
passed.

Note:  The Rose Creek Bike Path is adjacent to a roadway, namely I-5.

Eric


----- Original Message ----
From: "JonIsaacs at aol.com" <JonIsaacs at aol.com>
To: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 12:08:08 PM
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.

In a message dated 7/11/2008 11:06:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, econver at yahoo.com writes:


>>>There are specific laws regarding this matter.  Low-power electric bicycles and motor scooters (capable of speeds less than 20mph) are allowed on those paths.  In some states the speed is higher.  However, in California the law specifically states 20mph and less.  I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea that our legal electric bicycles are not allowed on all of the same pathways as normal bicycles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#California


-----------------------------





My understanding is that motorized bicycles are allowed in bike lanes but not on bike paths.  Searching the DMV website, this is what I found:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21207_5.htm


"Motorized Bicycles: Prohibited Operation21207.5.  Notwithstanding Sections 21207 and 23127 of this code, or any other provision of law, no motorized bicycle may be operated on a bicycle path or trail, bikeway, bicycle lane established pursuant to Section 21207, equestrian trail, or hiking or recreational trail, unless it is within or adjacent to a roadway or unless the local authority or the governing body of a public agency having jurisdiction over such path or trail permits, by ordinance, such operation. 

Amended Ch. 373, Stats. 1979. Effective January 1, 1980."

Since the federal law allows for state and local governments to override the requirement that federally funded bikeways be restricted as they so choose, it seems to me motorized bikes are not allowed.

Hopefully Jim, Kathy or some can help clarify this. 

  











**************
Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
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From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Fri Jul 11 20:43:22 2008
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:43:22 EDT
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.
Message-ID: <c1a.41d44e01.35a9582a@aol.com>

It is not clear exactly which laws apply. I am hoping that  someone who has 
specific knowledge here will clarify this.
 
 For example, from your Wikipedia link I found the following:
 
"TEA-21 and SAFETEA-LU[_clarify_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_clarify) ]  Specify that legal Ebikes, as defined above, are legal on urban 
bicycle trail  systems getting any federal funding unless states or local 
entities have passed  laws specifically dis-allowing electric assist bicycles. 
Under Federal Law,  Ebikes are NOT considered motor vehicles unless the state or 
local entity has  passed a law otherwise."
 
My DMV link it stated that motorized bicycles were not allowed on bike  paths 
and so since apparently state law does trump federal law, then it is not  
clear exactly what is legal.
 
Of course this is all a moot point because the Honda C70 in question is  
neither electrically powered nor is it a motorized bicycle but rather a small  
motorcycles capable of probably 50mph on a good day.
 
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_C70_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_C70) 
 
Jon Isaacs
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 7/11/2008 2:08:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
econver at yahoo.com writes:

Moreover,  Federal law states the following:

SAFETEA-LU is a 2005 Federal  Re-authorization of the 1990s TEA-21, and 
renews the exclusion of legal ebikes  from the classification of 'motor vehicles' 
from urban trail use unless a  specific local ebike statute is passed.

Note:  The Rose Creek Bike  Path is adjacent to a roadway, namely I-5.

Eric

-----  Original Message ----
From: "JonIsaacs at aol.com"  <JonIsaacs at aol.com>
To: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Sent: Friday, July  11, 2008 12:08:08 PM
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon  Bike Path.

In a message dated 7/11/2008 11:06:55 AM Pacific Daylight  Time, 
econver at yahoo.com writes:


>>>There are specific laws regarding this matter.   Low-power electric 
bicycles and motor scooters (capable of speeds less than  20mph) are allowed on 
those paths.  In some states the speed is  higher.  However, in California the law 
specifically states 20mph and  less.  I don't want anyone to get the wrong 
idea that our legal  electric bicycles are not allowed on all of the same 
pathways as normal  bicycles.

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#California_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#California) 



-----------------------------







My understanding is that motorized  bicycles are allowed in bike lanes but 
not on bike paths.  Searching the  DMV website, this is what I found:

_http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21207_5.htm_ 
(http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21207_5.htm) 


"Motorized  Bicycles: Prohibited Operation21207.5.  Notwithstanding Sections  
21207 and 23127 of this code, or any other provision of law, no motorized  
bicycle may be operated on a bicycle path or trail, bikeway, bicycle lane  
established pursuant to Section 21207, equestrian trail, or hiking or  recreational 
trail, unless it is within or adjacent to a roadway or unless the  local 
authority or the governing body of a public agency having jurisdiction  over such 
path or trail permits, by ordinance, such operation. 

Amended  Ch. 373, Stats. 1979. Effective January 1, 1980."

Since the federal law  allows for state and local governments to override the 
requirement that  federally funded bikeways be restricted as they so choose, 
it seems to me  motorized bikes are not allowed.

Hopefully Jim, Kathy or some can help  clarify this.  













**************
Get  the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your 
area  - Check out _TourTracker.com_ (http://tourtracker.com/) !
(_http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112_ 
(http://www.tourtracker.com/?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) )






**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music 
scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!      
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
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From smcneil2 at san.rr.com  Fri Jul 11 22:49:58 2008
From: smcneil2 at san.rr.com (Steve McNeil)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:49:58 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.
In-Reply-To: <487750F3.5090606@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <JFENIPGPMKCCFJAOJBALMEEGDAAA.smcneil2@san.rr.com>

I'm not laughing.  I've seen idiots who tried to drive their midsized cars
through the narrow curvy part under the I5-52 freeway interchange.  This not
only bent the protective fance outwards, but also created indentations in
the asphalt.  One guy reached the other end and then did a U-turn and went
back on the same bike path.  I do not understand why the city removed the
blocking post that stood in the middle of the entrance to the Rose Canyon
Bike path.

--Steve McNeil

-----Original Message-----
From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org
[mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]On Behalf Of Robert Leone
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:24 AM
To: Sdcbc
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.


Dear SDCbCers:
	Try not to laugh, but when I was remonstrating with a fellow on an old
Honda C70 motorscooter to not ride on the Rose Canyonb Bike Path, my
strongest argument was that if it WERE meant for motorized vehicles it
wouldn't have those blind spots.
	Suggestions would be appreciated.
Robert Leone

_______________________________________________

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From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 12 21:25:11 2008
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:25:11 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.
In-Reply-To: <48777EA7.1040708@wolfenet.org>
References: <487750F3.5090606@earthlink.net> <48777EA7.1040708@wolfenet.org>
Message-ID: <48795977.5020602@earthlink.net>

Dear Mark:
	Yup -- the C70 is a fun machine, I'm told, but it isn't freeway legal.

Robert Leone

markw wrote:
> Blind spots are a pretty weak argument. You can very well have 2 
> cyclists approaching that turn from opposite directions both doing 20 
> give or take, giving a 40mph closing speed.
> 
> He may be suffering the same issues cyclists do through there, not being 
> able to use the freeway. He's probably taking the path as there's no 
> alternative other than to go miles out of his way.  Man, this argument 
> sounds familiar. :)
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Robert Leone wrote:
> 
>> Dear SDCbCers:
>>     Try not to laugh, but when I was remonstrating with a fellow on an 
>> old Honda C70 motorscooter to not ride on the Rose Canyonb Bike Path, 
>> my strongest argument was that if it WERE meant for motorized vehicles 
>> it wouldn't have those blind spots.
>>     Suggestions would be appreciated.
>> Robert Leone
> 
> 



From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 12 21:34:31 2008
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:34:31 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Motor scooters in the Rose Canyon Bike Path.
In-Reply-To: <JFENIPGPMKCCFJAOJBALMEEGDAAA.smcneil2@san.rr.com>
References: <JFENIPGPMKCCFJAOJBALMEEGDAAA.smcneil2@san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <48795BA7.4000900@earthlink.net>

Dear Steve:
	Hi! I'd swear the city removed the bollard at the north end of the Rose 
Canyoon Bike Path because it was cheaper to let cars on it than pay for 
a Rose Canyon Bike Path and a "No Motorized Vehicles" sign. I do see the 
police patrolling it in their rolling steel cages at night.
	If I was in cynical mode I'd also say they left that hole there to 
encourage pinch flats and discourage cyclists (seen and heard it happen 
HISS!). You'll notice the rocks now filling the bollard hole are the 
same color and size as the nearby railroad ballast.


Steve McNeil wrote:
> I'm not laughing.  I've seen idiots who tried to drive their midsized cars
> through the narrow curvy part under the I5-52 freeway interchange.  This not
> only bent the protective fance outwards, but also created indentations in
> the asphalt.  One guy reached the other end and then did a U-turn and went
> back on the same bike path.  I do not understand why the city removed the
> blocking post that stood in the middle of the entrance to the Rose Canyon
> Bike path.
> 
> --Steve McNeil
SNIP
Robert Leone


From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 12 21:48:03 2008
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:48:03 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Cycling/commuting questions: i can't be the only one.
Message-ID: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net>

Dear People:
	Hello! Has anyone else, especially the bike commuters, noticed more 
questions than usual about commute and utility cycling? Evil note: One 
person has been asking about the Tour de France; I told him I'm waiting 
for Kristen Armstrong and Shanna "the Bananna" Armstrong to debut in it 
next year....

Robert Leone


From markw at wolfenet.org  Sat Jul 12 21:53:58 2008
From: markw at wolfenet.org (mark wolfe)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:53:58 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Cycling/commuting questions: i can't be the only one.
In-Reply-To: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net>
References: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <48796036.10608@wolfenet.org>

They'll debut in it about the same time you see a team riding Bacchetta 
Aeros. :)

Mark

Robert Leone wrote:
> Dear People:
> 	Hello! Has anyone else, especially the bike commuters, noticed more 
> questions than usual about commute and utility cycling? Evil note: One 
> person has been asking about the Tour de France; I told him I'm waiting 
> for Kristen Armstrong and Shanna "the Bananna" Armstrong to debut in it 
> next year....
> 
> Robert Leone

From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 12 22:31:47 2008
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:31:47 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Cycling/commuting questions: i can't be the only one.
In-Reply-To: <48796036.10608@wolfenet.org>
References: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net> <48796036.10608@wolfenet.org>
Message-ID: <48796913.10302@earthlink.net>

Dear Mark:
	Well, we've already had Alfonsina Strada in the Giro d'Italia. Besides, 
a nice long flat time trial would have interesting TdF results if you 
told the "domestiques" there was a woman riding it on a fixed gear....

Robert Leone



mark wolfe wrote:
> They'll debut in it about the same time you see a team riding Bacchetta 
> Aeros. :)
> 
> Mark
> 
> Robert Leone wrote:
> 
>> Dear People:
>>     Hello! Has anyone else, especially the bike commuters, noticed 
>> more questions than usual about commute and utility cycling? Evil 
>> note: One person has been asking about the Tour de France; I told him 
>> I'm waiting for Kristen Armstrong and Shanna "the Bananna" Armstrong 
>> to debut in it next year....
>>
>> Robert Leone
> 
> 



From pje at efgh.com  Sun Jul 13 20:16:06 2008
From: pje at efgh.com (Philip J. Erdelsky)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:16:06 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Bike/Ped Split
Message-ID: <487A9AC6.1090000@efgh.com>

The bike path that runs next to Perez Cove Way in Mission Bay Park
now splits in two places. Pedestrians are urged to take an alternate
parallel path that runs next to the Sea World parking lot:

   photo: http://www.efghmaps.com/temp/36616.jpg

Since this is a low-usage path, probably no harm will come of this,
except for a waste of good asphalt.

Separation of bikes and pedestrians on the Boardwalk was a failure,
as we all recall.

-- Philip Erdelsky

From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 13 20:21:40 2008
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:21:40 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Show and learn on this weekend's rides.
Message-ID: <487A9C14.2090309@earthlink.net>

Dear SDCBCers:
	On this weekend's various rides I --

1. Rode southbound Pershing -- perfectly fine on a weekend morning if 
you watch your back, but just THINKING about weekday morning rush hour 
with those sightlines and the nonsensical "ride past the offramp 
entrance to the right of the rightbound traffic, dismount and hope 
someone heading onto the freeway at breakneck speed doesn't run you over 
while you try to walk because someone in the city doesn't believe in 
those 'Right Turn Lane -- Yield to Bikes' signs TWICE" merges scared mor 
more than the last time I rode on Paific Highway southbound past the 
Barratt St merge.

2. Experienced, and finally was able to enunciate, the hazsards caused 
by the discountinuity between the bike path signage and the Silver 
Strand Signals. For example, say you come to a stop sign. You stop, you 
look both ways, you go. Meanwhile, as you just start on your 
acceleeration from a stop some left turning motorist is concentrating on 
his or her acceleration from a stop in obedience to the green arrowed 
traffic signal. Both cyclists and motorists would have to be psychic to 
get those yields, stop signs and light-based signals right and still not 
endanger each other.

3. Shared the joy of vibrations along Harbor Drive northbound from 
Cleveland St in National City on up to the big overpass just south of 
the convention center. In particular there seemed to be really rough 
patches by the 42nd St Naval Station entrance, the gates of NASSCO norht 
for about three blocks and right about the intersection with Sigsbee 
Street. Did I miss any extra rough spots? And yeah, I was on the bike 
with the cushy 26x1.75 tires.

4. Snagged the last ham and swish cheese quiche of the day at the 
Brickyard, along with a double Espresso con panna. yum.

5. Discussed T-shirt designs, but in retrospect I think reflective 
sashes and/or belts or leg bands might be better for the bike advocacy 
slogans. They'd fit more people, anyway.

Robert Leone

Thanks to everyone on the Sunday Ride and Learn!


From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 13 20:32:24 2008
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:32:24 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] "Me, I'm just this guy, you know?"
Message-ID: <487A9E98.3050702@earthlink.net>

Dear SDCBCers:
Since I've been actively posting lately, I feel I should remind everyone 
that although I volunteer a lot for the San Diego County Bicycle 
Coalition, and as soon as I get my club's paperwork done (don't hold 
your breath) I'll be on the Board of Directors, I do not represent the 
official position of the SDCBC in any way, shape or form. As far as that 
goes, I'm just a guy who's taken Road One and spends a lot of time on a 
bike.

Robert Leone


From gcarman at san.rr.com  Sun Jul 13 21:50:27 2008
From: gcarman at san.rr.com (gcarman at san.rr.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:50:27 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Bike/Ped Split
Message-ID: <568927.185731216000227239.JavaMail.root@cdptpa-web11-z02>


It seems some sort of physical barrier is needed at pedestrian speed...  even as simple as hand bar.  Look at Disneyland and their methods of flow control.  A line of paint only works at higher speeds

---- "Philip J. Erdelsky" <pje at efgh.com> wrote: 
> The bike path that runs next to Perez Cove Way in Mission Bay Park
> now splits in two places. Pedestrians are urged to take an alternate
> parallel path that runs next to the Sea World parking lot:
> 
>    photo: http://www.efghmaps.com/temp/36616.jpg
> 
> Since this is a low-usage path, probably no harm will come of this,
> except for a waste of good asphalt.
> 
> Separation of bikes and pedestrians on the Boardwalk was a failure,
> as we all recall.
> 
> -- Philip Erdelsky
> _______________________________________________
> 
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org


From tlettington at san.rr.com  Mon Jul 14 01:09:18 2008
From: tlettington at san.rr.com (Tom Lettington)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:09:18 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] The Poway Grade
In-Reply-To: <48796913.10302@earthlink.net>
References: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net> <48796036.10608@wolfenet.org>
	<48796913.10302@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20080714050902.ULFF4153.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>

This hot Sunday morning I decided (as the leader of our regular 
Sunday morning ride) to bring our small group to Poway.  Recognizing 
that the slow ride up the Poway grade on Poway Road is a bummer with 
no bike lane on a very narrow section of pavement, I brought our 
small group up the long slow grind on Community Road from Poway to 
Scripps Poway Parkway, up to SR 67 (*MUCH* longer and grinderier), 
north a bit on SR67, then down the Poway Grade on Poway Road.

This route decision was made to allow us to descend at speed on the 
Poway grade as to not impede traffic.

Due to "construction" in the area, the speed limit down the Poway 
grade (at least most of the way) is now 35mph instead of it's normal 
50mph.  I "let her rip" and against a small head wind I "took the 
lane" and flew down the Poway grade at 33mph.  To my amazement, an 
automobile behind me found the 2mph differential between the speed 
limit and his/her heat-thumping "need-for speed" to be totally 
unbearable.  A I took one of the two "slow traffic turn-outs" between 
SR67 and Espola Road to let traffic behind me proceed at their own 
pace, the tailgating perusers actually burned rubber to get around me.

As we neared the end of our ride westbound on Rancho Bernard Road, an 
area where on-street parking (mostly an informal used car lot) makes 
riding in the bike lane a door hazard nightmare, I again took the 
lane again and was nearly wiped out by a young soccer Mom in her 
Mini-Van as she veered left just enough to pass me with 8 inches to spare.

Oh my, we have to do something to educate motorists that cyclists 
have a right to use the roads in safety.  I believe that I have 
sensed an appreciable increase in the number of cyclists on the road 
recently. I also have noticed that a number of them are totally 
clueless as to how to behave responsibly as users of the roadways.

SDCBC  --  I believe we have an educational challenge of 
unprecedented magnitude before us.  Are we up to the challenge?

          - Tom


From bparent at ucsd.edu  Mon Jul 14 01:22:53 2008
From: bparent at ucsd.edu (Brian Parent)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:22:53 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] The Poway Grade
In-Reply-To: <20080714050902.ULFF4153.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>
References: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net> <48796036.10608@wolfenet.org>
	<48796913.10302@earthlink.net>
	<20080714050902.ULFF4153.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20080714052253.GT28750@calvin.ucsd.edu>

Yeah, I get those close passes too sometimes, but it seems
to happen much less frequently when I take the center, or
even left of center position in that outside lane.
The added benefit of that further left position is that
in the event of a close pass, there's extra space for
me to manuever if need be.

I agree, motorists and cyclists alike need to understand
that full use of the lane by cyclists is safe, legal,
appropriate, recommended by DMV, etc. in many situations.
I'd like to see a marketing/ad campaing akin to the anti-smoking
campaign of the '90s.

Re:
> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:09:18 -0700
> To: Sdcbc <sdcbc at bikesandiego.org>
> From: Tom Lettington <tlettington at san.rr.com>
> Subject: [SDCBC] The Poway Grade
> 
> This hot Sunday morning I decided (as the leader of our regular 
> Sunday morning ride) to bring our small group to Poway.  Recognizing 
> that the slow ride up the Poway grade on Poway Road is a bummer with 
> no bike lane on a very narrow section of pavement, I brought our 
> small group up the long slow grind on Community Road from Poway to 
> Scripps Poway Parkway, up to SR 67 (*MUCH* longer and grinderier), 
> north a bit on SR67, then down the Poway Grade on Poway Road.
> 
> This route decision was made to allow us to descend at speed on the 
> Poway grade as to not impede traffic.
> 
> Due to "construction" in the area, the speed limit down the Poway 
> grade (at least most of the way) is now 35mph instead of it's normal 
> 50mph.  I "let her rip" and against a small head wind I "took the 
> lane" and flew down the Poway grade at 33mph.  To my amazement, an 
> automobile behind me found the 2mph differential between the speed 
> limit and his/her heat-thumping "need-for speed" to be totally 
> unbearable.  A I took one of the two "slow traffic turn-outs" between 
> SR67 and Espola Road to let traffic behind me proceed at their own 
> pace, the tailgating perusers actually burned rubber to get around me.
> 
> As we neared the end of our ride westbound on Rancho Bernard Road, an 
> area where on-street parking (mostly an informal used car lot) makes 
> riding in the bike lane a door hazard nightmare, I again took the 
> lane again and was nearly wiped out by a young soccer Mom in her 
> Mini-Van as she veered left just enough to pass me with 8 inches to spare.
> 
> Oh my, we have to do something to educate motorists that cyclists 
> have a right to use the roads in safety.  I believe that I have 
> sensed an appreciable increase in the number of cyclists on the road 
> recently. I also have noticed that a number of them are totally 
> clueless as to how to behave responsibly as users of the roadways.
> 
> SDCBC  --  I believe we have an educational challenge of 
> unprecedented magnitude before us.  Are we up to the challenge?
> 
>           - Tom
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as bparent at ucsd.edu
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul 14 08:56:47 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 04:56:47 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] The Poway Grade
In-Reply-To: <20080714052253.GT28750@calvin.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFKECBDDAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>

I concur with Tom and Brian. Significantly, when ACSC (AAA) Westways
magazine published my recent letter to the editor, the one line that was
edited out cited the right of a biyclist to take the lane for his/her own
safety. The month before they had actually written favorably about LCIs and
the sort of cyclist training all of us generally support. I suspect there is
a wide range of knowledge and opinion among their editors and directors, and
I plan to continue to use my meager leverage as a 32-year member.

John E.

-----Original Message-----
From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org
[mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]On Behalf Of Brian Parent
...
I agree, motorists and cyclists alike need to understand
that full use of the lane by cyclists is safe, legal,
appropriate, recommended by DMV, etc. in many situations.
I'd like to see a marketing/ad campaing akin to the anti-smoking
campaign of the '90s.


From danettehoffert at gmail.com  Mon Jul 14 10:00:13 2008
From: danettehoffert at gmail.com (Danette Hoffert)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:00:13 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] The Poway Grade
In-Reply-To: <20080714050902.ULFF4153.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>
References: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net> <48796036.10608@wolfenet.org>
	<48796913.10302@earthlink.net>
	<20080714050902.ULFF4153.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1dfe83a00807140700o27e6f70aoeaf30425a6812f92@mail.gmail.com>

I agree that this is a problem.  No matter how assertive I am when
rightfully taking the lane, there is often this type of driver.  I too, have
had the burning rubber to get around me and in some cases the driver swerved
dangerously close as they passed in front of me.  I must say that I did not
know about the concept of cyclist "taking the lane" until I got involved
with SDCBC and I am a cyclist!  We really do need an educational campaign.
A video ride with a camera on a helmet through Leucadia would do it.  You
have one narrow lane on the right with car doors galore.  The irony is the
big trucks and vans insist on the right lane despite numerous bicyclists in
the lane.  The left lane can be available but they insist on using the right
and often get aggressive when I take the lane.

On a lighter note, it was so fun to see drivers actually
driving versus swerving while talking on the phone or dialing.  I thought
that the drivers looked utterly baffled as what to do besides drive.  They
actually have nothing to do but look ahead of them where they should have
been looking all along.

Happy Work Week,
Danette

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 10:09 PM, Tom Lettington <tlettington at san.rr.com>
wrote:

> This hot Sunday morning I decided (as the leader of our regular
> Sunday morning ride) to bring our small group to Poway.  Recognizing
> that the slow ride up the Poway grade on Poway Road is a bummer with
> no bike lane on a very narrow section of pavement, I brought our
> small group up the long slow grind on Community Road from Poway to
> Scripps Poway Parkway, up to SR 67 (*MUCH* longer and grinderier),
> north a bit on SR67, then down the Poway Grade on Poway Road.
>
> This route decision was made to allow us to descend at speed on the
> Poway grade as to not impede traffic.
>
> Due to "construction" in the area, the speed limit down the Poway
> grade (at least most of the way) is now 35mph instead of it's normal
> 50mph.  I "let her rip" and against a small head wind I "took the
> lane" and flew down the Poway grade at 33mph.  To my amazement, an
> automobile behind me found the 2mph differential between the speed
> limit and his/her heat-thumping "need-for speed" to be totally
> unbearable.  A I took one of the two "slow traffic turn-outs" between
> SR67 and Espola Road to let traffic behind me proceed at their own
> pace, the tailgating perusers actually burned rubber to get around me.
>
> As we neared the end of our ride westbound on Rancho Bernard Road, an
> area where on-street parking (mostly an informal used car lot) makes
> riding in the bike lane a door hazard nightmare, I again took the
> lane again and was nearly wiped out by a young soccer Mom in her
> Mini-Van as she veered left just enough to pass me with 8 inches to spare.
>
> Oh my, we have to do something to educate motorists that cyclists
> have a right to use the roads in safety.  I believe that I have
> sensed an appreciable increase in the number of cyclists on the road
> recently. I also have noticed that a number of them are totally
> clueless as to how to behave responsibly as users of the roadways.
>
> SDCBC  --  I believe we have an educational challenge of
> unprecedented magnitude before us.  Are we up to the challenge?
>
>          - Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as danettehoffert at gmail.com
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not
> necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
> postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>



-- 
Danette M. Hoffert's email
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From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul 14 10:31:20 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:31:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] The Poway Grade
In-Reply-To: <1dfe83a00807140700o27e6f70aoeaf30425a6812f92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <173450.95477.qm@web52505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

The good news on Highway 101 through Leucadia is that a group of citizens, with the blessing of the Encinitas City Council, has been actively working with Dan Burden to calm traffic and otherwise reduce speeds.

John E.

--- On Mon, 7/14/08, Danette Hoffert <danettehoffert at gmail.com> wrote:
A video ride with a camera on a helmet through Leucadia?would do?it.? You have one narrow lane on the right with car doors galore.? The irony is the big trucks and vans insist on the right lane despite numerous bicyclists in the?lane.? The left lane can be?available?but they insist?on?using the right and often get aggressive when I take the lane.

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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Mon Jul 14 17:43:37 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:43:37 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Looking for Carlsbad residents/bicyclists
Message-ID: <005301c8e5fa$aca3f4b0$05ebde10$@org>

Hello all,

 

We've received a letter from the City of Carlsbad asking for two member of
the Bicycle Coalition to serve on the Envision Carlsbad Citizens Committee
(EC3). According to the letter:

 

The EC3 will play a valuable role in two phases of the Envision Carlsbad
process. Phase 1 is the community visioning process and Phase 2 will be an
effort to update the General Plan, Local Coastal Program, and Zoning
Ordinances to achieve the community's vision.

 

The city requests that we nominate two of our members (who are Carlsbad
residents) to be appointed to the EC3 by the City Council (one as a primary,
one as an alternate.)

 

So, if you live in Carlsbad, please consider participating. Cyclists
throughout the region need your help to be our voice! Please email me and I
can send you more details about the application process and other
requirements. 

 

Kathy

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

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From admin7 at cox.net  Mon Jul 14 18:03:26 2008
From: admin7 at cox.net (Jon Perkins)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:03:26 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] EX-ER Doc Charged in L.A. Cyclists crash
References: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net>
	<48796036.10608@wolfenet.org><48796913.10302@earthlink.net><20080714050902.ULFF4153.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>
	<1dfe83a00807140700o27e6f70aoeaf30425a6812f92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003301c8e5fd$71b71690$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080711-2036-ca-cyclistscrash.html



There are a few facts missing from the UT version of this story.  On the date of this attack (4th of July), about 300 cyclists were on an Independence day bicycle ride to the top of Mandeville Canyon road in Brentwood. This is a popular event and take place a half dozen times a year.

 

On the descent, a cyclist was injured, and had to be taken to the hospital. Two of his buddies (soon to be victims), 40-year-old Ron Peterson and 28-year-old Christian Stoher, stayed back and tended to him, while the ambulance arrived. 

 

Later, as the two set off back down the hill, a car (Infinity Sedan) passed close to them and the "good" Dr. shouted obscenities, pulled in front of the riders and slammed on his brakes. 

 

Christian barely avoided a collision by swerving into oncoming traffic, but was still injured after losing control of his bicycle, while Ron was thrown through the back window of the car, breaking the windshield. His nose was partially severed, and he received severe facial lacerations and broken teeth*.

 

The Doctors attorney Peter Swarth calls the incident a "unfortunate accident".  However what else can you say about a Doctor who purposely injures cyclists who were assisting a injured cyclist?



Also, on a lighter note it was pleasant to see that Dr. Christopher Thompson was charged on July 11.  His birthday. 

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080711-2036-ca-cyclistscrash.html



*Assumptive and not confirmed



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From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul 14 19:58:20 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:58:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Looking for Carlsbad residents/bicyclists
In-Reply-To: <005301c8e5fa$aca3f4b0$05ebde10$@org>
Message-ID: <774001.88684.qm@web52511.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Do Carlsbad employees qualify, or just residents?

--- On Mon, 7/14/08, Kathy Keehan <execdir at sdcbc.org> wrote:
From: Kathy Keehan <execdir at sdcbc.org>
Subject: [SDCBC] Looking for Carlsbad residents/bicyclists
To: SDCBC at bikesandiego.org
Date: Monday, July 14, 2008, 2:43 PM




 
 






Hello all, 

 ? 

We?ve received a letter from the City of Carlsbad
asking for two member of the Bicycle Coalition to serve on the Envision
Carlsbad Citizens Committee (EC3).?
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From danettehoffert at gmail.com  Tue Jul 15 00:11:38 2008
From: danettehoffert at gmail.com (Danette Hoffert)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:11:38 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] EX-ER Doc Charged in L.A. Cyclists crash
In-Reply-To: <003301c8e5fd$71b71690$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>
References: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net> <48796036.10608@wolfenet.org>
	<48796913.10302@earthlink.net>
	<20080714050902.ULFF4153.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>
	<1dfe83a00807140700o27e6f70aoeaf30425a6812f92@mail.gmail.com>
	<003301c8e5fd$71b71690$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>
Message-ID: <1dfe83a00807142111m1c18c2fbob5385a3f1e8b622f@mail.gmail.com>

There are some sick people out there and let's hope this man gets a felony
and jail time.  He needs to be on the receiving end of a bull.  I find
it interesting that this man is not actively practicing medicine .  Probably
some history here and previous behavioral problems (or drugs).  It would be
nice to get a group of riders to picket his business (Touch Medix) on his
sentencing day with blown up pictures of what his "accident" did to these
people's lives.  We could also do some damage with e-mails to keep this
alive when anyone does a search of this man or his business.

BTW, there was a similar event in San Diego.  A couple was riding up Torrey
Pines Road at 10:00 am last Sunday.  The husband got ahead of his wife so
they were not side by side.  Torrey Pines is 3 lanes with one of the widest
bike lanes in the city.  There was absolutely NO traffic, which is
unfortunate=no witnesses, which means it was most likely calculated by the
driver.  Suddenly the first rider who was behind, a petite woman, heard a
car horn blaring continuously behind her and a car swerved into her.  She
managed to swerve to avoid a problem and watched as he did the same to her
husband.  They called the police (she was crying) and the police did respond
immediately and took the complaint seriously.  It was a white, American car
and a male driver.  I guess we need to have our cameras ready when we are
out there.

After reading about the "quack," I should spread the word now that I see
that this "doctor" had demonstrated the same behavior prior to his attack.
Danette

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net> wrote:

>
> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080711-2036-ca-cyclistscrash.html
>
>
>
> There are a few facts missing from the UT version of this story.  On the
> date of this attack (4th of July), about 300 cyclists were on an
> Independence day bicycle ride to the top of Mandeville Canyon road in
> Brentwood. This is a popular event and take place a half dozen times a year.
>
>
>
> On the descent, a cyclist was injured, and had to be taken to the hospital.
> Two of his buddies (soon to be victims), 40-year-old Ron Peterson and
> 28-year-old Christian Stoher, stayed back and tended to him, while the
> ambulance arrived.
>
>
>
> Later, as the two set off back down the hill, a car (Infinity Sedan) passed
> close to them and the "good" Dr. shouted obscenities, pulled in front of the
> riders and slammed on his brakes.
>
>
>
> Christian barely avoided a collision by swerving into oncoming traffic, but
> was still injured after losing control of his bicycle, while Ron was thrown
> through the back window of the car, breaking the windshield. His nose was
> partially severed, and he received severe facial lacerations and broken
> teeth*.
>
>
>
> The Doctors attorney Peter Swarth calls the incident a "unfortunate
> accident".  However what else can you say about a Doctor who purposely
> injures cyclists who were assisting a injured cyclist?
>
>
>
> Also, on a lighter note it was pleasant to see that Dr. Christopher
> Thompson was charged on July 11.  His birthday.
>
>
>
>
> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080711-2036-ca-cyclistscrash.html
>
>
>
> *Assumptive and not confirmed
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as danettehoffert at gmail.com
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not
> necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
> postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>



-- 
Danette M. Hoffert's email
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From abulifia1 at cox.net  Tue Jul 15 01:17:11 2008
From: abulifia1 at cox.net (Abulifia)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:17:11 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] EX-ER Doc Charged in L.A. Cyclists crash
In-Reply-To: <003301c8e5fd$71b71690$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>
References: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net>	<48796036.10608@wolfenet.org><48796913.10302@earthlink.net><20080714050902.ULFF4153.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>	<1dfe83a00807140700o27e6f70aoeaf30425a6812f92@mail.gmail.com>
	<003301c8e5fd$71b71690$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>
Message-ID: <487C32D7.6060109@cox.net>

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From serge at issakov.org  Tue Jul 15 10:58:02 2008
From: serge at issakov.org (Serge Issakov)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:58:02 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] EX-ER Doc Charged in L.A. Cyclists crash
In-Reply-To: <003301c8e5fd$71b71690$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>
References: <48795ED3.2000903@earthlink.net> <48796036.10608@wolfenet.org>
	<48796913.10302@earthlink.net>
	<20080714050902.ULFF4153.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@amd.san.rr.com>
	<1dfe83a00807140700o27e6f70aoeaf30425a6812f92@mail.gmail.com>
	<003301c8e5fd$71b71690$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>
Message-ID: <69ec985b0807150758n390b8452i1aaaf8f391ac9495@mail.gmail.com>

This reminds me of the incident on Mulholland Drive a few years ago where a
CHP officer passed a group of cyclists on a descent, pulled in front of
them, and slammed on his brakes.  I think motorists sometimes don't realize
how fast cyclists are going and how much time/space they need to stop.   The
message I pasted  below from Dan Gutierrez was posted to another list.  The
third link in that message is a youtube video that demonstrates cyclist
behavior on narrow road situations that I have found defuses motorist
frustration that can escalate.

As to the Torrey Pines incident (I first heard about it from the female
victim, an SDBC member), it seems to me that this is an example of an ahole
with a vendetta against cyclists for some reason, who intentionally (and
successfully) tried to scare (but not hit) the cyclists.  If he had wanted
to hit them, he would have.  I don't mean to excuse the action in any way,
of course, because such  a dangerous action is terrifying in itself, and
could inadvertently lead to a crash.

Both incidents illustrate why I use a mirror.

Serge


------------------------------------------------------

To all,
You are all probably familiar with the 4th of July Road Rage incident that
occurred in Mandeville Canyon, where a motorist slammed on his brakes in
front of two cyclists, badly injuring one of them:

http://laist.com/2008/07/07/road_rage_motorist_vs_cyclists_on_m.php
http://laist.com/2008/07/07/update_on_bicycle_accident.php

Given all the public concerns about cycling on that road, Brian DeSousa and
I felt some public education was in order.  To that end, we have shot video
of the Canyon and created a short (3:49) YouTube educational video,
entitled: Mandeville Canyon - Motorist/Cyclist Cooperation, for cyclists and
motorists, showing safe, legal and cooperative behaviors.  Here is the Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKSVwhLMjBk

In addition, the Rights and Duties of Cyclists video on YouTube is also
helpful in this context:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU4nKKq02BU

Please forward this to your distribution lists to help us spread the
education message.

Thanks in advance for your help,


- Dan Gutierrez -
Long Beach, CA
(562) 244-4145 Cell
(310) 336-3075 Office
(800) 616-4714 Pager
Dan.Gutierrez at Charter.Net
------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Jon Perkins <admin7 at cox.net> wrote:

>
> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080711-2036-ca-cyclistscrash.html
>
>
>
> There are a few facts missing from the UT version of this story.  On the
> date of this attack (4th of July), about 300 cyclists were on an
> Independence day bicycle ride to the top of Mandeville Canyon road in
> Brentwood. This is a popular event and take place a half dozen times a year.
>
>
>
> On the descent, a cyclist was injured, and had to be taken to the hospital.
> Two of his buddies (soon to be victims), 40-year-old Ron Peterson and
> 28-year-old Christian Stoher, stayed back and tended to him, while the
> ambulance arrived.
>
>
>
> Later, as the two set off back down the hill, a car (Infinity Sedan) passed
> close to them and the "good" Dr. shouted obscenities, pulled in front of the
> riders and slammed on his brakes.
>
>
>
> Christian barely avoided a collision by swerving into oncoming traffic, but
> was still injured after losing control of his bicycle, while Ron was thrown
> through the back window of the car, breaking the windshield. His nose was
> partially severed, and he received severe facial lacerations and broken
> teeth*.
>
>
>
> The Doctors attorney Peter Swarth calls the incident a "unfortunate
> accident".  However what else can you say about a Doctor who purposely
> injures cyclists who were assisting a injured cyclist?
>
>
>
> Also, on a lighter note it was pleasant to see that Dr. Christopher
> Thompson was charged on July 11.  His birthday.
>
>
>
>
> http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20080711-2036-ca-cyclistscrash.html
>
>
>
> *Assumptive and not confirmed
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as serge at issakov.org
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not
> necessarily reflect the positions of the SDCBC or it's Board.
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
> postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>



-- 
NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved.
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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Tue Jul 15 12:33:49 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:33:49 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] On Voice of San Diego this morning
Message-ID: <006101c8e698$8fd75310$af85f930$@org>

Hi all,

I?m the host of Caf? San Diego this morning
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/cafesandiego/ talking about bicycling in San
Diego County. Stop by and make a comment on the website so I have something
to talk about. :-)

Kathy

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

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From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Tue Jul 15 23:39:22 2008
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:39:22 EDT
Subject: [SDCBC] EX-ER Doc Charged in L.A. Cyclists crash
Message-ID: <bc8.33a91e60.35aec76a@aol.com>

This evening I happened to be listening to KCRW, Santa Monica Public  Radio ( 
89.9 FM).  The show "Which Way LA" was  devoted to cycling, particularly a 
meeting between cyclists,  homeowners and the city which addressed the problems 
in the area where  the doctors apparent misdeeds took place.
 
Here is a link where you can listen:
 
_http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/ww/ww080715on_the_streets_of_lo_ 
(http://www.kcrw.com/news/programs/ww/ww080715on_the_streets_of_lo) 
 
It's worth a listen...  Kathy's counterpart in LA is also  interviewed along 
with a guy from Felt.
 
jon





**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music 
scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!      
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
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From bikes.alot at cox.net  Wed Jul 16 01:12:00 2008
From: bikes.alot at cox.net (Bicyclist)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:12:00 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Bike Film Fest in LA this week!! SF next week!!!
Message-ID: <20080716051308.YXRZ6175.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

Bike film fest in LA!

>To: news at lists.bicyclefilmfestival.com
>From: Brendt Barbur <brendt at bicyclefilmfestival.com>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:53:01 -0400
>X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753)
>
>Hi All
>We are back in California!!
>Minneapolis was amazing.
>
>Los Angeles is going to be so much fun!!
>Get your tickets sooner than later!!
>The shorts programs are really really good this year.
>Or even get a pass at the site:
><http://www.bicyclefilmfestival.com>http://www.bicyclefilmfestival.com
>
>
>THURSDAY JULY 17
>9:30 PM | 
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/bikesrock.php#a>BIKES ROCK
>
>FRIDAY JULY 18
>7:30 PM | 
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/program1.php#a>PROGRAM 
>1 - FUN BIKE SHORTS
>[]
>
>9:30 PM | 
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/program2.php#a>PROGRAM 
>2 - THE SIX-DAY BICYCLE RACES
>[]
>
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/fridayparty.php#a>AFTERPARTY TBA
>SATURDAY JULY 19
>1:30 PM | 
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/program3.php#a>PROGRAM 
>3 - THE BIKE LANE
>[]
>
>3:30 PM | 
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/program4.php#a>PROGRAM 
>4 - LES NINJA DU JAPON
>[]
>
>5:30 PM | 
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/program5.php#a>PROGRAM 
>5 - THE WAY BOBBY SEES IT
>[]
>
>7:30 PM | 
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/program6.php#a>PROGRAM 
>6 - ROAD TO ROUBAIX
>[]
><http://www.BrownPaperTickets.com/event/38524>
>9:30 PM | 
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/program7.php#a>PROGRAM 
>7 - URBAN BIKE SHORTS
>[]
>
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/saturdayparty.php#a>AFTERPARTY 
>TBA
>SUNDAY JULY 20
>12-8 PM | 
><http://bicyclefilmfestival.com/2008_site/la/streetparty.php#a>BFF 
>STREET PARTY WITH INES BRUNN
>
>Please pass this on to your friends.
>
>Take care
>
>Brendt
>
>
>PS
>
>Bikes Rule
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>News mailing list
>News at lists.bicyclefilmfestival.com
>https://my.binhost.com/lists/listinfo/news
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From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 16 07:21:15 2008
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:21:15 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Bay Shore Bike Route signal fixed.
Message-ID: <487DD9AB.1080009@earthlink.net>

Dear SDCBCers:
	Hello! One of the surprizes, pleasant one though, on the Ride and Learn 
on Sunday was the traffic signal on the Bay Shore Bike Route northbound 
at the Chula Vista nature interpretive center, where you make the left 
turn to get on the bike path.
	The traffic signal for the left turn triggered for the bikes! Thanks to 
the City of Chula Vista for adjusting the induction coil sensitivity, 
and thanks to the SDCBC for asking the City of CV to adjust the 
induction coil sensitivity.
	So, what's the status of the state rule to adjust induction coils to 
register bicycles?

Robert "just one more thing" Leone


From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul 16 08:44:31 2008
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:44:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] Bay Shore Bike Route signal fixed.
In-Reply-To: <487DD9AB.1080009@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <946997.30298.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I don't know about statewide, but the City of Carlsbad has been very responsive (so to speak) in adjusting its loop detectors.

Everyone -- if you fill out the SANDAG questionnaire, please mention the need for bicycle-sensitive traffic lights.

Cheers,

John E.

--- On Wed, 7/16/08, Robert Leone <rob_leone at earthlink.net> wrote:
...	The traffic signal for the left turn triggered for the bikes! Thanks to 
the City of Chula Vista for adjusting the induction coil sensitivity, 
and thanks to the SDCBC for asking the City of CV to adjust the 
induction coil sensitivity.
	So, what's the status of the state rule to adjust induction coils to 
register bicycles?

Dear SDCBCers:
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From bmatella at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul 16 13:27:21 2008
From: bmatella at sbcglobal.net (Bill Matella)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:27:21 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] You thought we had it bad...
Message-ID: <1AF0D26E6A4C426593726C0694CEB59A@BillsPowerBox>

Well folks, not all is utopia in Portland, there's trouble in River City...

"Talk about a wild ride. A road rage incident Sunday evening involving a bicyclist and a car, in which the bike rider ended up on the hood of a car speeding along a Southeast Portland street, led to the driver's arrest on an assault charge."

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=121606536316454400

Bill Matella
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From JimBaross at cox.net  Wed Jul 16 14:14:55 2008
From: JimBaross at cox.net (Jim Baross)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:14:55 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Traffic Signals? Re:  Bay Shore Bike Route signal fixed.
In-Reply-To: <946997.30298.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <487DD9AB.1080009@earthlink.net>
	<946997.30298.qm@web52512.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080716181614.IIIX29505.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>


>On Wed, 7/16/08, Robert Leone <rob_leone at earthlink.net> asked:
- snip -
         So, what's the status of the state rule to adjust induction coils to
register bicycles?
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Statewide -
The legislature passed and governor signed AB 1581 that (paraphrasing 
here) puts responsibility on Caltrans to come up with operational 
standards for on-demand signals to work/trigger/activate for 
motorcycles and bicycles.... then for new or modified signals to meet 
the standards. We can thank the motorcycling lobby for making this 
happen this time - there had been other attempts.

The process for developing standards and identifying hardware that 
works has been/is complicated - what is to be a "standard bike", size 
of wheel and or bike, composition/make up of the wheel/bike, should a 
detector be able to distinguish a bicycle from other vehicles; etc.

Bicycling advocate, Traffic Engineer Bob Shanteau has been my/our 
most involved person for us and last reported the following response 
to my inquiries. I'll copy him with this message to perhaps hear some update.

<<<<<<
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:11:58 -0700
To: Jim Baross
Subject: Re: Next meeting of AB 1581 Subcommittee
From: Bob Shanteau

Jim Baross wrote:
>Will the AMA/motor cycling interest folks stand with us? If you want 
>I'll contact them; just tell me who and how.

Bob: I talked earlier today with James Lombardo, lobbyist for ABATE 
(motorcyclists) and member of the Subcommittee. He's with us.

>As I see it as a fundamental issue/position is that 
>on-demand/traffic actuated traffic signals should/shall actuate for 
>any legal traffic; pedestrians, motor vehicles including 
>motorcyclists, and of course bicyclists. It is clearly easier to 
>detect massive/large conveyances and harder to detect other 
>smaller/less massive ones, but it's people in traffic that must be 
>detected or hazards result.

Bob: True, but mass has very little to do with it. Automobiles are 
easy to detect with inductive loops because they act like horizontal 
metal plates and they are easy to detect with magnetometers and 
magnetic detectors because they have large amounts of steel close to 
the ground (or at least most automobiles do). Motorcycles and 
bicycles are hard to detect with inductive loops because they act 
like vertical metal plates and many are hard to detect with 
magnetometers and magnetic detectors because they have no steel close 
to the ground.

>Why are we not hearing about video detection and only about 
>in-pavement devices?

Bob: Because the Subcommittee has agreed on the performance standard 
that vehicle/motorcycle/bicycle detection is to meet (except for the 
whether the frame of the reference bicycle is non-ferromagnetic, that 
is). As long as a reference bicycle-rider who stops in the 6'x6' 
detection zone centered in the lane at the limit line is detected at 
least 95% of the time, the performance standard is met. At this 
point, we are unsure if detection technologies other than inductive 
loops will meet the performance standard, but all we need is one 
feasible detection technology to move forward.

Bob: We are unsure if video detection can meet the performance 
standard under all lighting and environmental conditions. We know (or 
at least I do) that magnetometers and magnetic detectors cannot meet 
the performance standard. In future there may be other technologies 
that will be developed that meet the performance standard. As long as 
we are detected, though, the details of how that happens don't matter

Bob
 >>>>>>>>>>

Jim Baross
San Diego, California
619-280-6908

Chair, SANDAG Bicycle Pedestrian Working Group
Vice Chair, Calif. Bicycle Advisory Committee
President, Calif. Association of Bicycle Organizations
Board Member, Calif. Bicycle Coalition
Spokesperson, San Diego County Bicycle Coalition
League LCI Trainer & Effective Cycling Instructor #185 K-C
Chair, Strategic Highway Safety Plan, #13 - Improve Bicycling Safety

"Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on our public 
roads, just as does every other user.
Nothing more is expected. Nothing less is acceptable."
        Jack R. Taylor

"Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles."
        John Forester

"Same Roads Same Rules Same Rights"
        SDCBC

"Roads are for people, not just for people in cars."
        Jim Baross

"Bicycling is Personal Rapid Transit"
        (Who wrote that?)  



From admin7 at cox.net  Wed Jul 16 15:02:16 2008
From: admin7 at cox.net (Jon Perkins)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:02:16 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Another: You thought we had it bad...
References: <1AF0D26E6A4C426593726C0694CEB59A@BillsPowerBox>
Message-ID: <001901c8e776$770bfa50$b900e00a@pd.sannet.gov>

 A man riding his bicycle to work was shot and killed just after sunrise Tuesday morning in South Toledo.

http://www.myfoxtoledo.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=7099EA119DE31907591123B91FD0A182?contentId=6988346&version=13&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bill Matella 
  To: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:27 AM
  Subject: [SDCBC] You thought we had it bad...


  Well folks, not all is utopia in Portland, there's trouble in River City...

  "Talk about a wild ride. A road rage incident Sunday evening involving a bicyclist and a car, in which the bike rider ended up on the hood of a car speeding along a Southeast Portland street, led to the driver's arrest on an assault charge."

  http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=121606536316454400

  Bill Matella


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________

  You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as admin7 at cox.net
  To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
  List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
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From JimBaross at cox.net  Wed Jul 16 15:06:08 2008
From: JimBaross at cox.net (Jim Baross)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:06:08 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Cyclist's Eye View: Driving Your Bicycle in Traffic
Message-ID: <20080716190656.JYBD29505.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:10:42 -0400
From: "Dan Carrigan"

To all:

Cyclist's Eye View: Driving Your Bicycle in Traffic is now available
online <http://www.youtube.com/carrigan88>.

Cyclist's Eye View: Driving Your Bicycle in Traffic, short but
detailed recap of the Effective Cycling principles by LA County Bike
Coalition/City of Long Beach with Chris Quint, LCI. Real traffic
scenes, all filmed from bikes and from the "cyclist's eye view." For
Bike Ed instructors and classes in your state, see following website:
<http://tinyurl.com/2pswcu> Related videos at:
<http://youtube.com/CyclistLorax>

Below is a timeline with chapter, subject topics.

Regards,

   Dan C
   LCI # 1710
   Ohio

----

    mm: ss
00:00:05 Cyclist's Eye View: Driving Your Bicycle in Traffic
00:01:55 Before Riding: Helmet &amp; Mirror To Make Riding Easier
00:02:19 Scanning and Signaling Intention
00:03:46 Lets Start Riding
00:04:05 Dealing with traffic lanes too narrow to share with another vehicle
00:06:39 How to negotiate simple signalized intersections, making
right & left turns
00:08:04 Road positioning to use or avoid Right-Turn-Only-Lanes
00:09:45 How to traverse freeway-on-off-ramp intersections safely
00:14:46 Using Left-Turn-Only-Lanes for left turns and U-turns
00:15:21 Tripping Signal Sensor Loops By Postitioning Wheel Over Loop
00:16:59 Box U-Turns
00:18:42 Quick Review of Essentials
00:19:35 Resources



From danettehoffert at gmail.com  Wed Jul 16 15:17:13 2008
From: danettehoffert at gmail.com (Danette Hoffert)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:17:13 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Cyclist's Eye View: Driving Your Bicycle in Traffic
In-Reply-To: <20080716190656.JYBD29505.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
References: <20080716190656.JYBD29505.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
Message-ID: <1dfe83a00807161217t5271c663nf8539ff170342933@mail.gmail.com>

It may be time to add a section on how to deal with the psycho drivers out
there.



On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Jim Baross <JimBaross at cox.net> wrote:

>
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:10:42 -0400
> From: "Dan Carrigan"
>
> To all:
>
> Cyclist's Eye View: Driving Your Bicycle in Traffic is now available
> online <http://www.youtube.com/carrigan88>.
>
> Cyclist's Eye View: Driving Your Bicycle in Traffic, short but
> detailed recap of the Effective Cycling principles by LA County Bike
> Coalition/City of Long Beach with Chris Quint, LCI. Real traffic
> scenes, all filmed from bikes and from the "cyclist's eye view." For
> Bike Ed instructors and classes in your state, see following website:
> <http://tinyurl.com/2pswcu> Related videos at:
> <http://youtube.com/CyclistLorax>
>
> Below is a timeline with chapter, subject topics.
>
> Regards,
>
>   Dan C
>   LCI # 1710
>   Ohio
>
> ----
>
>    mm: ss
> 00:00:05 Cyclist's Eye View: Driving Your Bicycle in Traffic
> 00:01:55 Before Riding: Helmet &amp; Mirror To Make Riding Easier
> 00:02:19 Scanning and Signaling Intention
> 00:03:46 Lets Start Riding
> 00:04:05 Dealing with traffic lanes too narrow to share with another
> vehicle
> 00:06:39 How to negotiate simple signalized intersections, making
> right & left turns
> 00:08:04 Road positioning to use or avoid Right-Turn-Only-Lanes
> 00:09:45 How to traverse freeway-on-off-ramp intersections safely
> 00:14:46 Using Left-Turn-Only-Lanes for left turns and U-turns
> 00:15:21 Tripping Signal Sensor Loops By Postitioning Wheel Over Loop
> 00:16:59 Box U-Turns
> 00:18:42 Quick Review of Essentials
> 00:19:35 Resources
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as danettehoffert at gmail.com
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
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> Opinions expressed here are those of the individual poster and do not
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>



-- 
Danette M. Hoffert's email
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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Wed Jul 16 16:10:25 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:10:25 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] PS - Voice of San Diego
Message-ID: <003601c8e77f$fccbd9e0$f6638da0$@org>

Voice of San Diego was so impressed with the number of comments and level of
discussion that they've asked me to come back for Thursday. Keep those
comments coming!

Kathy

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Wed Jul 16 16:10:25 2008
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:10:25 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Coalition Board meeting next Wednesday, July 23rd
Message-ID: <003b01c8e77f$fd867750$f89365f0$@org>

Quick reminder that the next Coalition Board meeting will be next Wednesday,
July 23rd, 7:00 to 8:30 p.m. at the Coalition office, 740 13th St, Suite
220. Potential agenda items include -

-          Pedal to the Airshow plan approval

-          Bike the Bay update

-          Board member responsibilities and slight updates to the bylaws
regarding same

Other suggestions?

As always, everyone welcome to attend.

Kathy

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

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From serge at issakov.org  Wed Jul 16 17:35:14 2008
From: serge at issakov.org (Serge Issakov)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:35:14 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] On Voice of San Diego this morning
In-Reply-To: <006101c8e698$8fd75310$af85f930$@org>
References: <006101c8e698$8fd75310$af85f930$@org>
Message-ID: <69ec985b0807161435v1a112348q636234f12ee1b784@mail.gmail.com>

Good comments so far.  This one caught my eye: