[SDCBC] Fw: [sbbike] Restrictions on bicyclists at drive-up windows?

[Jim Baross]

Once in a while I hear complaints about this and haven't done 
anything about it. I'm not sure how much of an issue/problem it is, 
but the restriction certainly points out undesirable differences in 
treatment bicyclists get stuck with.

To the extent that this is a problem in your area, that you care, can 
and want to do something to fix it, here are some ideas.

Jim (rarely does the drive/bike/walkup window scene) Baross

>From: John Cinatl <john_cinatl at dot.ca.gov>
>Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:10:20 -0800
>
>Greeting All
>
>Here is additional info on the subject of bikes using drive thru facilities
>at banks and fast food places.  In most cases it appears that motorcycles
>aren't prohibited -  but bicycles and peds are!!!!!
>
>If we are truly into having bikes as a part of our overall solution to
>congestion and air quality we need to get this scenario upgraded -
>nationwide - insurance laws, health laws, etc..
>
>JOHN
>____________________________
>John F. Cinatl,  Associate Transportation Planner
>North Region & Bicycle Facilities Planning
>Caltrans - District 6 - Fresno, CA
>1352 West Olive Ave. (2nd. Floor)
>Fresno, CA 93778
>(559) 444-2500
>FAX (559) 488-4088
>john_cinatl at dot.ca.gov
>
>"Caltrans Improves Mobility Across California - For Bicycles Too"
>
>----- Forwarded by John Cinatl/D06/Caltrans/CAGov on 02/01/2008 12:03 PM
>
>              Wilsonhubbell at aol.com 
>
>                                                                    Subject
>              02/01/2008 09:40          [sbbike] Restrictions on bicyclists
>              AM                        at drive-up windows?
>
>Fellow Bikies,
>
>I've been checking with other cities and counties regarding cyclists being
>refused service at drive up windows.  The best and most complete response
>came from Dan Bergenthal in Salt Lake City.  The following is what he had
>to say.
>
>Wilson
>
>In a message dated 2/1/2008 8:56:44 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>Dan.Bergenthal at slcgov.com writes:
>
>
>  Wilson,
>
>  Following up on a complaint last spring from a bicyclist being denied
>  service at a Wendy's here in Salt Lake City we discovered that the
>  insurance issue is real.  Here is an excerpt from an email I received from
>  the person I was working with in our City Attorney''s office:

>  The city's insurance broker has contacted several major insurance
>  companies and has heard back from four of them. Two of them stated that
>  they would cancel or refuse to renew policies for businesses required to
>  let bikes and peds through drive-throughs. The other two said that they
>  would not cancel but would increase their premiums 10-20% if required to
>  cover bikes/ped drive-through access.
>
>  The solution to this problem is to have your state pass legislation to
>  limit the liability of the businesses with drive-through facilities and to
>  then require them to allow bicyclists to use their drive-through
>  facilities.  Last year the state of Maine past a law to do this very
>  thing.  Here is the wording:
>
>  Liability related to a bicyclist using a drive-up window
>
>  1.  Limited liability.   An establishment that has a drive-up window is
>  not liable for personal injury, property damage or death caused to a
>  bicyclist that uses that establishment's drive-up window.
>
>  2.  Limitations.   This section does not limit any liability that may
>  otherwise exist for willful or malicious actions or failures to guard or
>  warn against a known dangerous condition related to the use of the
>  drive-up window.
>
>  3.  No duty created.   Nothing in this section creates a duty of care or
>  ground for liability
>
>  4.  Costs and fees.   The court may award any direct legal costs,
>  including reasonable attorney's fees, to an establishment that is found
>  not to be liable for injury to a bicyclist pursuant to this section.
>
>  9.  Drive-up window.   A bicyclist may use a drive-up window at any
>  establishment that has a drive-up window, including, but not limited to, a
>  bank, restaurant, pharmacy or automated teller machine.
>
>  Here are some links concerning Maine's new law:
>  http://www.bikemaine.org/ld1808_about.htm
>
>  http://janus.state.me.us/legis/LawMakerWeb/summary.asp?LD=1808&SessionID=7
>
>  I have been speaking with the Utah Bicycle Coalition and we hope to do
>  something similar here in Utah.  Palo Alto, California took a different
>  approach. They have a zoning ordinance which requires a conditional use
>  permit for drive-in services within certain zones.  The text is as
>  follows:
>
>  Section 18.43.040 Conditional Uses (typical excerpt) The following uses
>  may be conditionally allowed in the CC district subject to the issuance of
>  a conditional use permit in accord with Chapter 18.90:
>
>  (e) Drive-in services or take-out services associated with permitted uses,
>  so long as drive-up facilities, excluding carwashes, provide full access
>  to pedestrians and bicyclists. A maximum of two such services shall be
>  permitted within 304.8 (1,000 feet) and each use shall not be less than
>  45.7 meters (150 feet) from one another.
>
>  Dan Bergenthal, P.E.
>  Salt Lake City Transportation Division
>  349 South 200 East, Suite 450
>  P.O. Box 145502
>  Salt Lake City, UT 84114-5502
>  801-535-7106

>  From: members-bounces at apbp.org [mailto:members-bounces at apbp.org] On Behalf
>  Of Wilsonhubbell at aol.com
>  Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 4:11 PM
>  To: members at apbp.org
>  Subject: [apbp] Restrictions on bicyclists at drive-up windows?

>  Colleagues,
>
>  We've had a number of bicyclists refused service at drive up windows for
>  fast food restaurants, banks and other local establishments.  This is a
>  problem because some businesses are closed to walk in customers at certain
>  hours and only provide drive up service during those times.
>
>  The reasons for refusal include "our insurance won't allow us" and "the
>  health department says we can't", yet motorcyclists don't seem to
>  encounter the same problem.  Have any of you encountered a similar issue
>  and, if so, how was it handled?
>
>  Thanks,
>  Wilson Hubbell
>  County of Santa Barbara