[SDCBC] FW: bike safety and good neighbor relations

[Serge Issakov]

Well, it is true that at a BAC of .08 a driver is 11 times more likely to be
in a crash than is a sober driver.
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/drive/a/aa070297.htm
So it's probably an exaggeration to say that a majority of drivers are
equally dangerous.

However, that indicates a cell phone talker is also about 11 times as likely
as a sober driver is likely to crash.
But then, according to the studies, so is someone who was done talking about
2 minutes ago but is still thinking about it, or, presumably, so is a driver
thinking about something equally engaging.

11 times more likely might sound like a lot, but note that at a BAC of .10,
only 2 beers more, the driver is now 48 times more likely than a sober
driver to be involved in a crash.  So relative to a .10 driver, a .08
driver, and a cell phone user, is about 4 times less dangerous (4 times less
likely to be involved in a crash).

And I still think generic inattention is more widespread then we'd care to
think about (raise your hand if you've ever arrived at a destination and
could recall the drive itself), and I don't see how any kind of
thought-distraction inattention could be much different from that in someone
who hung up on a call 2 minutes ago.

As to riding side-by-side, I really don't think it's a safety issue.  At
typical biking speeds along long stretches with no intersections, like on
del dios, a cyclist's active attention is not really that important (not
compared to the attention required on a morning commute along La Jolla
Village Driver, for example).  I think it's mostly a courtesy issue.  I
mean, you tend to chat when it's safe to chat, and shut up when you have to
concentrate on traffic (like at intersection approaches and crossings,
merges, etc.).

If drivers can still safely pass, I don't see what the big deal is.  But if
you're 4 across and so unnecessarily holding up traffic, that's no good.

Serge



On 10/9/07, Brandon Vanderberg <brandon_vanderberg at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Evening all,
>
> I've been lurking here for a few months and would like to thank you all
> for the insight I've gained into the cycling world through this forum.
> Though I am no longer able to ride my bike to work, I follow this list daily
> and am much more aware of cyclists sharing the road because of my exposure
> to discussions like this. And I thank you in advance for allowing me to add
> a couple of observations.
>
> I find it difficult to accept that a 'majority' of drivers, at any given
> time, are as dangerous as a .08 drunk driver -either through their use of
> cell phones, recent use of cell phones, or because they are thinking about a
> presentation. However I would agree that, at any given time, some are and
> that it does behoove us to ride accordingly.
>
> Having said that, is there any good reason to ride side by side? Chatting
> with one's riding partner would seem to be at least as distracting as
> thinking about presentations is to drivers. I would argue that whether it's
> 2 cars, 2 motorcycles, or 2 bikes, the road comes first and the conversation
> is best saved for the rest stops.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Vanderberg
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Serge Issakov <serge at issakov.org>
> To: Neil Brooks <neil0502 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2007 6:12:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [SDCBC] FW: bike safety and good neighbor relations
>
>
>
> On 10/9/07, Neil Brooks <neil0502 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > a) studies CONSISTENTLY show that cell phone users are as dangerous as
> > drunk drivers, regardless
> > of whether or not they use a hands-free device, so ...
>
>
> What I've read indicates a cell phone user is about as dangerous as a .08
> drunk driver, the least dangerous of all legally drunk drivers.  Just a few
> years ago .08 wasn't even illegal.  So I think it's not entirely accurate to
> say that cell phone users are as dangerous as drunk drivers, the most
> dangerous of whom are way over .08.
>
> What's most interesting to me is that cell phone users are just as
> distracted several minutes after hanging up on the phone, which indicates
> it's the pure mental inattention that makes them be as dangerous as a .08
> drunk driver, not the process of engaging in a cell phone conversation.
>
> In other words, I suspect a driver thinking deeply about a presentation at
> work, or how cyclists should stay in bike lanes "where they belong", is
> probably about as dangerous as a .08 drunk driver, or a driver using a cell
> phone.  Of course, that's a lot harder to test for in a study.  But if it's
> true, then probably a huge percentage of drivers, perhaps the majority at
> any given time, are probably as dangerous as a .08 drunk driver, even though
> they're stone cold sober and not using the cell phone.  In any case, it
> behooves us to ride accordingly.  So I try to avoid riding in a manner that
> has my safety depend on any particular driver paying attention without
> verifying as best as I can that they have noticed me.  In other words, it
> doesn't much matter to me whether they're .08, on the cell phone, or
> thinking about work.
>
> Serge
>
> --
> NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
> any organization in which I am involved.
>
>
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-- 
NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved.
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