From DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net  Thu Nov  1 00:42:12 2007
From: DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net (Darryl MacKenzie)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:42:12 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <004501c81c22$beccd5a0$81ecfea9@yourm5d4u9r2uv>
Message-ID: <20071101044209.SWOH17470.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net>

My girl friend came across this accident while walking this morning shortly
after it happened, before the cyclist was transported from the scene. She
tells me that the truck was definitely parked in the bike lane. 

 

She said she thought the vehicle was parked in an odd location in that there
were no residences or businesses near the spot where the vehicle was parked.
But, the vehicle was stopped in the traffic lane for bicycle traffic. 

 

Darryl MacKenzie

San Diego Cyclo-Vets Ride Co-Ordinator

 <mailto:DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net> DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net

(619) 303-7316

o^o  o^o  o^o o^o  o^o  o^o o^o  o^o  o^o

 

-----Original Message-----
From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org [mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]
On Behalf Of Bill Matella
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:02 PM
To: tah at san.rr.com; sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash

 

All,

 

>From the looks of the geometry of the roadway, I would expect it to be no 

parking in the bike lane.  I would be surprised if this section is not 

posted.  Landscapers, in my experience,  are regular violators of the no 

parking zone.

 

Bill Matella

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Tom Harvey" <tah at san.rr.com>

To: <sdcbc at bikesandiego.org>

Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:45 PM

Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash

 

 

> from http://www.10news.com/news/14472148/detail.html

> 

>> Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash

>> 

>> SAN DIEGO -- A teenage boy was fatally injured Wednesday when the

>> bicycle he was riding crashed into a parked landscaping truck near his

>> Carmel Valley home.

>> 

>> Nigel Clarke, 15, was heading to the north on Carmel Country Road about

>> 8:40 a.m. when he rounded a curve at high speed and crashed into the

>> unoccupied vehicle near State Route 56, according to San Diego police

>> and the county medical examiner's office.

>> 

>> Though he was wearing a helmet, the teen suffered severe head injuries

>> and was pronounced dead at Scripps Memorial Hospital La Jolla about 30

>> minutes later, authorities said.

> 

> there are seven pictures of the accident scene at the 10news.com web

> site, which is up the hill to the south of the 56 freeway.  the curve is

> not very sharp.  it appears that aren't any "no parking in bike lane"

> signs on that section of carmel country road, and it is legal to park in

> a bike lane in california unless specifically prohibited.

> _______________________________________________

> 

> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as bmatella at sbcglobal.net

> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 

> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc

> List privacy information is located at 

> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup

> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to


> postmaster at stickman-computing.org 

 

_______________________________________________

 

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as DarrylMacKenzie at cox.net

To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc

List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup

For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
postmaster at stickman-computing.org

 

__________ NOD32 2630 (20071031) Information __________

 

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.

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From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Thu Nov  1 08:29:41 2007
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:29:41 EDT
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
Message-ID: <c1c.21cb01a6.345b20b5@aol.com>

In a message dated 10/31/07 8:46:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net writes:

> My girl friend came across this accident while walking this morning shortly 
> after it happened, before the cyclist was transported from the scene. She 
> tells me that the truck was definitely parked in the bike lane. 
> 
>  
> 
> She said she thought the vehicle was parked in an odd location in that there 
> were no residences or businesses near the spot where the vehicle was parked. 
> But, the vehicle was stopped in the traffic lane for bicycle traffic. 
> 
>  
> 
> 

--------

Darryl:

  Did you girlfriend notice if the Bike Lane was also Marked "NO PARKING"?   
As far as I know it is legal to park in a Bike Lane unless it is marked 
otherwise.  As others have commented,  it is not uncommon for vehicles to be parked 
in a Bike Lane that is marked No Parking.  

I imagine there are some lessons in this incident, probably not the time to 
discuss them yet.  Anytime someone goes down, it is sad.

Jon


**************************************
 See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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From DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net  Thu Nov  1 10:46:15 2007
From: DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net (Darryl MacKenzie)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 07:46:15 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <c1c.21cb01a6.345b20b5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20071101144611.ZJIR17470.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>

Jon & all:

 

She was not sure. She thought it was so marked, assumed so, but could not
say for certain. 

 

The gravity of the situation weighed heavily on her and the several other
women walkers she was with. It was a very emotionally scene. She also has 3
children, including a boy only a few months past his 16th birthday. I could
tell she was still upset when she came to my home for dinner last night. 

 

Darryl MacKenzie

 <mailto:DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net> DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net

(619) 303-7316 

 

  _____  

From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org [mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]
On Behalf Of JonIsaacs at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:30 AM
To: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash

 

In a message dated 10/31/07 8:46:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net writes:




My girl friend came across this accident while walking this morning shortly
after it happened, before the cyclist was transported from the scene. She
tells me that the truck was definitely parked in the bike lane. 



She said she thought the vehicle was parked in an odd location in that there
were no residences or businesses near the spot where the vehicle was parked.
But, the vehicle was stopped in the traffic lane for bicycle traffic. 






--------

Darryl:

  Did you girlfriend notice if the Bike Lane was also Marked "NO PARKING"?
As far as I know it is legal to park in a Bike Lane unless it is marked
otherwise.  As others have commented,  it is not uncommon for vehicles to be
parked in a Bike Lane that is marked No Parking.  

I imagine there are some lessons in this incident, probably not the time to
discuss them yet.  Anytime someone goes down, it is sad.

Jon


**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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From dianeb at qualcomm.com  Thu Nov  1 12:45:02 2007
From: dianeb at qualcomm.com (Diane Brown)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:45:02 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] RAAM crew email?
Message-ID: <200711011645.lA1Gj3j1021426@neophyte.qualcomm.com>

Hi,

A couple of weeks ago, someone sent to this list a request for RAAM 
crew.    I might be able to do it -- can you please resend this email to me?

Thanks,

--Diane


From execdir at sdcbc.org  Thu Nov  1 13:12:38 2007
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:12:38 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] FW: 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
Message-ID: <006f01c81caa$67e61890$37b249b0$@org>

 

 

From: Tim Brooks [mailto:tbrooks at qualcomm.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:01 AM
To: DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net
Cc: JonIsaacs at aol.com; sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash

 

I used to see this boy and his friend riding to school several times a week,
thinking more than once that they seemed to really enjoy the trip (and
wondering why my 15-year-old daughter couldn't make it the same school on
her bike).  It is marked Bike Lane--No Parking on very small signs (I looked
for them this morning and it's the first time I've noticed them) at the
beginning of each block and on the curve about 50 feet before the accident
site.  Landscape maintenance trucks are often parked in the lane, as are
dozens of construction workers' vehicles early in the morning waiting to get
in the gate to the Grand Del Mar hotel construction site.

At 07:46 AM 11/1/2007, Darryl MacKenzie wrote:

Jon & all:
 
She was not sure. She thought it was so marked, assumed so, but could not
say for certain. 
 
The gravity of the situation weighed heavily on her and the several other
women walkers she was with. It was a very emotionally scene. She also has 3
children, including a boy only a few months past his 16th birthday. I could
tell she was still upset when she came to my home for dinner last night. 
 
Darryl MacKenzie
DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net
(619) 303-7316 
 

  _____  

From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org [
<mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org>
mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org] On Behalf Of JonIsaacs at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:30 AM
To: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
 
In a message dated 10/31/07 8:46:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DarrylMacKenzie at Cox.Net writes:


My girl friend came across this accident while walking this morning shortly
after it happened, before the cyclist was transported from the scene. She
tells me that the truck was definitely parked in the bike lane. 



She said she thought the vehicle was parked in an odd location in that there
were no residences or businesses near the spot where the vehicle was parked.
But, the vehicle was stopped in the traffic lane for bicycle traffic. 




--------

Darryl:

  Did you girlfriend notice if the Bike Lane was also Marked "NO PARKING"?
As far as I know it is legal to park in a Bike Lane unless it is marked
otherwise.  As others have commented,  it is not uncommon for vehicles to be
parked in a Bike Lane that is marked No Parking.  

I imagine there are some lessons in this incident, probably not the time to
discuss them yet.  Anytime someone goes down, it is sad.

Jon


**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com <http://www.aol.com/> 
_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as timbrooks at global.t-bird.edu
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
postmaster at stickman-computing.org

 

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From serge at issakov.org  Thu Nov  1 13:44:20 2007
From: serge at issakov.org (Serge Issakov)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:44:20 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <20071101144611.ZJIR17470.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
References: <c1c.21cb01a6.345b20b5@aol.com>
	<20071101144611.ZJIR17470.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
Message-ID: <69ec985b0711011044j5a06ae08va160c906bc4e1d21@mail.gmail.com>

This is a terrible tragedy.  What can be learned from it?

I don't think whether parking is legal in that bike lane is very important.
Even if parking is illegal, if the truck was parked there because it broke
down there, it's understandable and should not be unexpected.  Parking at
the curb in a bike lane marked "no parking" is akin to parking in a red curb
zone, or double parking on a surface street - at worst it's a minor
infraction and not considered a serious safety hazard.  Nor should it be.
Bike lanes should not be thought of as guaranteed safe and clear space for
cyclists, and it's dangerous to assume as much.  As tempting as the
comparison may be, blocking a bike lane is nothing like parking in a freeway
traffic lane.

My bias against bike lanes is well-known on this list, and this tragedy
exemplifies one of my main objections to them: that they instill a false
sense of security in cyclists, that they induce a
cycling-nirvana-mindlessness that might be appropriate on an empty bike path
or maybe even a very quiet country road, but not on a surface street shared
with motor vehicles.  I think less experienced cyclists, perhaps like 15
year old Nigel Clarke, are particularly prone to this effect.  Can a cyclist
be blamed for going too fast around a blind curve only a few feet from the
curb where he could reasonably believe he was legally obligated to be: in
the bike lane?  My heart goes out to Nigel's family and friends.

If you're a supporter of bike lanes, I urge you to remember Nigel, and think
of his family, the next time you express favor for bike lanes on the basis
of safety for cyclists.  There is little if any evidence that supports that
view, and tragedies like this, which are all too common, suggest the
opposite may well be true: bike lanes make cycling less safe, arguably even
deadly.

Serge

-- 
NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved.
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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Thu Nov  1 13:54:39 2007
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:54:39 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Road I 'Urban Cycling' class cancelled this weekend
Message-ID: <009f01c81cb0$4623eb00$d26bc100$@org>

The proposed Road I "Urban Cycling" class scheduled for this Friday and
Saturday has been scheduled due to a lack of students. Our next Road I class
will be at Grossmont College on December 1, 8, and 15th. To register for the
December class, go to http://www.sdcbc.org/events.htm and click on the
'register' link under the December class.

Kathy

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Thu Nov  1 14:24:10 2007
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:24:10 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] New link for surveymonkey survey
Message-ID: <00b201c81cb4$66385d00$32a91700$@org>

The survey was so popular we ran over our response limit, so here's a new
link to the survey. Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused folks.
You still have until end of business Friday to complete the survey, so don't
wait!

 

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=JUYu7UbDME9_2fgGtOZaqUTw_3d_3d

 

Kathy

 

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Thu Nov  1 15:19:09 2007
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 12:19:09 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] don't forget velodrome swap meet this Sunday, November 4th
Message-ID: <00c701c81cbc$145f2bf0$3d1d83d0$@org>

Velodrome Swap Meet Sunday, November 4th

Volunteers for the Coalition booth will be setting up at 8:00 a.m., buyers
get through the gate at 9:00! 

If you would like to staff the Coalition booth for a little bit, please let
me know. If not, stop by and say "HI!" on your way to the fabulous deals. 

Hope to see you all there!

Kathy

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Thu Nov  1 18:54:47 2007
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 15:54:47 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Southbay Expressway Grand Opening and Bike Ride
Message-ID: <010b01c81cda$33dfeaa0$9b9fbfe0$@org>

Information from the Southbay Expressway folks - 

 

Cycle, Run or Walk the South Bay Expressway Saturday, November 17, 2007

Where: South Bay Expressway (SR-125) Birch Road On Ramp

Parking: Otay Ranch Town Center Birch Road Entrance

Free Events: 8:00 a.m. 15 mile Cycle Tour (helmets required); 8:30 a.m. 5 or
10 mile Run; 9:00 5 or 10 mile walk or fun stroll; 11:00 Festival at Otay
Ranch Town Center Mall; 12:00 bus tours.

To pre-register and for more info, visit southbayexpressway.com/fun

Day of event registration welcome. For more info, call 619.253.7073

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

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From danettehoffert at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 23:36:24 2007
From: danettehoffert at gmail.com (Danette Hoffert)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 19:36:24 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <69ec985b0711011044j5a06ae08va160c906bc4e1d21@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c1c.21cb01a6.345b20b5@aol.com>
	<20071101144611.ZJIR17470.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
	<69ec985b0711011044j5a06ae08va160c906bc4e1d21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1dfe83a00711012036o6a55c893l68fd3d02f387454@mail.gmail.com>

You can pass this along if you like.

I believe that (not confirmed or I know for sure) this is illegal.  I see
this as much as twice a day when I ride.  Landscapers park their trucks in
the lane or on the curb in order to have access to tools.

 Are they to blame for the death?  I doubt it.   Could they be held liable?
 I think so.  Would ticketing them for illegal parking provide an easy
revenue stream and better environment.  Yes.
The org that probably hires the landscapers is a HOA.  Their next HOA
meeting may be interesting.

from my husband who commutes to work in the area


On 11/1/07, Serge Issakov <serge at issakov.org> wrote:
>
> This is a terrible tragedy.  What can be learned from it?
>
> I don't think whether parking is legal in that bike lane is very
> important.  Even if parking is illegal, if the truck was parked there
> because it broke down there, it's understandable and should not be
> unexpected.  Parking at the curb in a bike lane marked "no parking" is akin
> to parking in a red curb zone, or double parking on a surface street - at
> worst it's a minor infraction and not considered a serious safety hazard.
> Nor should it be.  Bike lanes should not be thought of as guaranteed safe
> and clear space for cyclists, and it's dangerous to assume as much.  As
> tempting as the comparison may be, blocking a bike lane is nothing like
> parking in a freeway traffic lane.
>
> My bias against bike lanes is well-known on this list, and this tragedy
> exemplifies one of my main objections to them: that they instill a false
> sense of security in cyclists, that they induce a
> cycling-nirvana-mindlessness that might be appropriate on an empty bike path
> or maybe even a very quiet country road, but not on a surface street shared
> with motor vehicles.  I think less experienced cyclists, perhaps like 15
> year old Nigel Clarke, are particularly prone to this effect.  Can a cyclist
> be blamed for going too fast around a blind curve only a few feet from the
> curb where he could reasonably believe he was legally obligated to be: in
> the bike lane?  My heart goes out to Nigel's family and friends.
>
> If you're a supporter of bike lanes, I urge you to remember Nigel, and
> think of his family, the next time you express favor for bike lanes on the
> basis of safety for cyclists.  There is little if any evidence that supports
> that view, and tragedies like this, which are all too common, suggest the
> opposite may well be true: bike lanes make cycling less safe, arguably even
> deadly.
>
> Serge
>
> --
> NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
> any organization in which I am involved.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as danettehoffert at gmail.com
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to
> postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>



-- 
Danette M. Hoffert's email
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From nightbikerider at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  2 01:00:59 2007
From: nightbikerider at yahoo.com (Ron Grayson)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 22:00:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] bike swap meet - carpool
Message-ID: <661376.91982.qm@web50110.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

anyone in North County interested in carpooling to the bike swap meet this Sunday?
  thanks,
  ron
  nightbikerider at yahoo.com

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From William at McHargue.Org  Fri Nov  2 10:00:31 2007
From: William at McHargue.Org (William McHargue)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:00:31 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8.1193957703.28937.sdcbc@bikesandiego.org>
References: <mailman.8.1193957703.28937.sdcbc@bikesandiego.org>
Message-ID: <0DC4A903-833E-40C0-B332-DE8D2E4F7B04@McHargue.Org>


On Nov 1, 2007, at 15:55, "Serge Issakov" <serge at issakov.org> wrote:

> I don't think whether parking is legal in that bike lane is very  
> important.

Agreed.

> My bias against bike lanes is well-known on this list, and this  
> tragedy exemplifies one of my main objections to them: that they  
> instill a false sense of security in cyclists, that they induce a  
> cycling-nirvana-mindlessness that might be appropriate on an empty  
> bike path or maybe even a very quiet country road, but not on a  
> surface street shared with motor vehicles.

You lost me there. I cannot look at a stretch of road with a bike  
lane, and without, and imagine that the riding on the one without  
could possibly be "safer" than riding on the one with?all else equal.  
If only to give motorists a boundary to at least try (perhaps  
subconsciously) to guide their vehicle through.

That some riders might let their guard down because they feel the lane  
boundary is impenetrable is secondary at best and the motivation for  
cyclist and motorist education, not doing away with bike lanes. This  
tragedy says nothing about bike-lane/no-bike-lane pros and cons as you  
pointed out that a car could just as easily be parked in a street  
without a bike lane.

I would love to have the road all to myself all the way along my multi- 
mile bike ride, but that will never happen. Next best thing: bike  
lanes that allow cars to pass with a full lane width, and from which I  
can "take the lane" when the situation warrants.


Regards,

Bill.

(Serge: If you have expressed your bias on this topic through the list  
before, and want to discuss it in more detail off the list, please  
feel free to e-mail me directly?I do want to understand your thinking  
on the topic.)
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From gcarman at san.rr.com  Fri Nov  2 10:53:46 2007
From: gcarman at san.rr.com (Gene Carman)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 06:53:46 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <69ec985b0711011044j5a06ae08va160c906bc4e1d21@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <c1c.21cb01a6.345b20b5@aol.com>
	<20071101144611.ZJIR17470.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
	<69ec985b0711011044j5a06ae08va160c906bc4e1d21@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200711021454.lA2Esmow015038@ms-smtp-04.socal.rr.com>


Carmel Country right in that area is a very fast downhill, it is not 
unheard of to reach 30MPH downhill in that area.

Personally I have long left the BL and use those neat stripped areas 
to the left of the BL in this area.  The road narrows near the 
bottom, and there is one uncontrolled intersection as well as the 
light controlled intersection.

For that uncontrolled intersection, I like to be out, wide, and well 
visible, especially at 30MPH.

And yes landscaper trucks as well as phone company and SDGE trucks 
have been known to park in the BL along there and along El Camino 
Real...  the latter where motorists travel at 50+MPH.

At 09:44 AM 11/1/2007, Serge Issakov wrote:
>This is a terrible tragedy.  What can be learned from it?
>
>I don't think whether parking is legal in that bike lane is very 
>important.  Even if parking is illegal, if the truck was parked 
>there because it broke down there, it's understandable and should 
>not be unexpected.  Parking at the curb in a bike lane marked "no 
>parking" is akin to parking in a red curb zone, or double parking on 
>a surface street - at worst it's a minor infraction and not 
>considered a serious safety hazard.  Nor should it be.  Bike lanes 
>should not be thought of as guaranteed safe and clear space for 
>cyclists, and it's dangerous to assume as much.  As tempting as the 
>comparison may be, blocking a bike lane is nothing like parking in a 
>freeway traffic lane.
>
>My bias against bike lanes is well-known on this list, and this 
>tragedy exemplifies one of my main objections to them: that they 
>instill a false sense of security in cyclists, that they induce a 
>cycling-nirvana-mindlessness that might be appropriate on an empty 
>bike path or maybe even a very quiet country road, but not on a 
>surface street shared with motor vehicles.  I think less experienced 
>cyclists, perhaps like 15 year old Nigel Clarke, are particularly 
>prone to this effect.  Can a cyclist be blamed for going too fast 
>around a blind curve only a few feet from the curb where he could 
>reasonably believe he was legally obligated to be: in the bike 
>lane?  My heart goes out to Nigel's family and friends.
>
>If you're a supporter of bike lanes, I urge you to remember Nigel, 
>and think of his family, the next time you express favor for bike 
>lanes on the basis of safety for cyclists.  There is little if any 
>evidence that supports that view, and tragedies like this, which are 
>all too common, suggest the opposite may well be true: bike lanes 
>make cycling less safe, arguably even deadly.
>
>Serge
>
>--
>NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily 
>shared by any organization in which I am involved.
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org


From trevorspoke at cox.net  Fri Nov  2 16:24:47 2007
From: trevorspoke at cox.net (trevorspoke at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:24:47 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] Noticed and Ready
Message-ID: <20071102162447.Q7HKX.194586.root@fed1wml10.mgt.cox.net>

We were discussing the tragic death of a young bicyclist riding legally but without sufficient education or experience to know that bike lanes aren't all they promise. In fact, bike lanes can by their very existence create the opposite effect from what the designer dreamed they would have. The site in Carmel Valley is just such a one. A wide gore zone is improperly painted between the bike lane and other traffic, purely inviting people with wide vehicles to park there. Without the island, vehicles would park on the sidewalk to avoid being crashed up by passing motorists. The faster a cyclist goes, the more s/he needs to be in a position to be part of the main traffic stream; the island encourages the rider to take the WRONG path, away from traffic. The city is looking for big $ trouble with this design approach.

Other issues with separated traffic:

Passing distance between motorists and bicyclists in a marked lane has been studied and found to be LESS than if the bicyclist were in a shared lane.

Trash accumulates in lanes that don't get driven in, so bike lanes have more dangerous surface (sand, oils, leaves).

When evasive maneuvers are required, being in the bike lane makes it even more difficult to safely merge to adjacent travel lane. As noted above, unused buffer space makes hazards MORE likely in the bike lane, so merging is more frequently required.

Bike lanes teach people without other instruction that this is the place where they should always ride. Instead, speed and destination positioning are the sensible approach for safety.

What is needed for safe and easy cooperation between motor and bicycle traffic is:
1. notice each other
2. be ready to merge into each others' lanes before it's too late

I don't know whether bike lanes would be safe for bicyclists even if they were filled with people all the time. Certainly we wouldn't have the issue of people parking cars in the lane as above. But still we would have the issue with merging. Check out the club rides on the weekends, particularly through some crowded location like center of Del Mar.

More know-how, less paint, and get rid of those pesky raised pavement markers. 

-- Trevor

From rduquete at 911law.com  Sat Nov  3 22:31:03 2007
From: rduquete at 911law.com (Richard Duquette)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:31:03 -0700
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <200711021454.lA2Esmow015038@ms-smtp-04.socal.rr.com>
References: <c1c.21cb01a6.345b20b5@aol.com>
	<20071101144611.ZJIR17470.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net>
	<69ec985b0711011044j5a06ae08va160c906bc4e1d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<200711021454.lA2Esmow015038@ms-smtp-04.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200711040231.lA42V2CI003072@ms-smtp-01.socal.rr.com>

List mates

Its very sad news indeed the death occurred.

I would point out that these cases can be won in court depending on 
the jury..The facts are of course important.

If this was a down hill and the deceased was riding within the 
posted/marked bike lane at the speed limit, I believe liability can 
be established on the landscape company because its illegal to 
obstruct a bike lane and blockage was the substantial factor causing 
the crash.But for the truck blocking the lane, there would be no 
death.Moreover, they should have posted advance cones or signs 
warning of the unexpected parked vehicle,so it appears the workers 
were negligently supervised or trained.

Yes there may be a comparative negligence argument, but remember to 
avoid the parked vehicle it takes time to observe,react & brake to 
stop or swerve.By then, it may have been too late if the crash 
occurred on a curve.

I won a similar case before a Vista jury about 10 years ago 
called  Keith Hill v XYZ (name escapes me) landscape Co.It occurred 
like this one .(You can look it up in the Vista court public records 
if interested).The cyclist rear ended the landscape truck.There were 
soft tissue & minor neurological hand injuries and  the jury came 
back with 65-85k as I recall.Defense offer was 15k or so.It occurred 
in the Aviara section of Carlsbad.

Just a few thoughts.

Richard Duquette
Bicycle Injury Trial lawyer since 1983
www.911law.com


.At 07:53 AM 11/2/2007, you wrote:

>Carmel Country right in that area is a very fast downhill, it is not
>unheard of to reach 30MPH downhill in that area.
>
>Personally I have long left the BL and use those neat stripped areas
>to the left of the BL in this area.  The road narrows near the
>bottom, and there is one uncontrolled intersection as well as the
>light controlled intersection.
>
>For that uncontrolled intersection, I like to be out, wide, and well
>visible, especially at 30MPH.
>
>And yes landscaper trucks as well as phone company and SDGE trucks
>have been known to park in the BL along there and along El Camino
>Real...  the latter where motorists travel at 50+MPH.
>
>At 09:44 AM 11/1/2007, Serge Issakov wrote:
> >This is a terrible tragedy.  What can be learned from it?
> >
> >I don't think whether parking is legal in that bike lane is very
> >important.  Even if parking is illegal, if the truck was parked
> >there because it broke down there, it's understandable and should
> >not be unexpected.  Parking at the curb in a bike lane marked "no
> >parking" is akin to parking in a red curb zone, or double parking on
> >a surface street - at worst it's a minor infraction and not
> >considered a serious safety hazard.  Nor should it be.  Bike lanes
> >should not be thought of as guaranteed safe and clear space for
> >cyclists, and it's dangerous to assume as much.  As tempting as the
> >comparison may be, blocking a bike lane is nothing like parking in a
> >freeway traffic lane.
> >
> >My bias against bike lanes is well-known on this list, and this
> >tragedy exemplifies one of my main objections to them: that they
> >instill a false sense of security in cyclists, that they induce a
> >cycling-nirvana-mindlessness that might be appropriate on an empty
> >bike path or maybe even a very quiet country road, but not on a
> >surface street shared with motor vehicles.  I think less experienced
> >cyclists, perhaps like 15 year old Nigel Clarke, are particularly
> >prone to this effect.  Can a cyclist be blamed for going too fast
> >around a blind curve only a few feet from the curb where he could
> >reasonably believe he was legally obligated to be: in the bike
> >lane?  My heart goes out to Nigel's family and friends.
> >
> >If you're a supporter of bike lanes, I urge you to remember Nigel,
> >and think of his family, the next time you express favor for bike
> >lanes on the basis of safety for cyclists.  There is little if any
> >evidence that supports that view, and tragedies like this, which are
> >all too common, suggest the opposite may well be true: bike lanes
> >make cycling less safe, arguably even deadly.
> >
> >Serge
> >
> >--
> >NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily
> >shared by any organization in which I am involved.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
> >To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
> >http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> >List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> >For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send
> >e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as rduquete at 911law.com
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

Richard L. Duquette
Criminal Defense &
Bicycle Injury Lawyer since 1983
Carlsbad, CA
760-730-0500
www.911law.com  
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From hollenbeck2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  4 00:18:50 2007
From: hollenbeck2001 at yahoo.com (Eric Hollenbeck)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 21:18:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <200711040231.lA42V2CI003072@ms-smtp-01.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <814774.37169.qm@web37115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

So if a tree fell in the bike lane and a rider crashed into it, who would be liable? 
And would anyone hear it? ;-)

Richard Duquette wrote: 
> List mates 
> Its very sad news indeed the death occurred. 
> I would point out that these cases can be won in court depending on the
> jury..The facts are of course important. 
> If this was a down hill and the deceased was riding within the
> posted/marked bike lane at the speed limit, I believe liability can be
> established on the landscape company because its illegal to obstruct a
> bike lane and blockage was the substantial factor causing the crash.But
> for the truck blocking the lane, there would be no death.Moreover, they
> should have posted advance cones or signs warning of the unexpected
> parked vehicle,so it appears the workers were negligently supervised or
> trained. 
> Yes there may be a comparative negligence argument, but remember to avoid
> the parked vehicle it takes time to observe,react & brake to stop or
> swerve.By then, it may have been too late if the crash occurred on a
> curve. 
> I won a similar case before a Vista jury about 10 years ago called?
>  Keith Hill v XYZ (name escapes me) landscape Co. It occurred like
> this one .(You can look it up in the Vista court public records if
> interested).The cyclist rear ended the landscape truck.There were soft
> tissue & minor neurological hand injuries and? the jury came
> back with 65-85k as I recall.Defense offer was 15k or so.It occurred in
> the Aviara section of Carlsbad. 
> Just a few thoughts. 
> Richard Duquette 
> Bicycle Injury Trial lawyer since 1983 
>  www.911law.com 
>  .At 07:53 AM 11/2/2007, you wrote: 
>  Carmel Country right in that
> area is a very fast downhill, it is not 
> unheard of to reach 30MPH downhill in that area. 
> Personally I have long left the BL and use those neat stripped areas
> to the left of the BL in this area.? The road narrows near the 
> bottom, and there is one uncontrolled intersection as well as the 
> light controlled intersection. 
> For that uncontrolled intersection, I like to be out, wide, and well
> visible, especially at 30MPH. 
> And yes landscaper trucks as well as phone company and SDGE trucks 
> have been known to park in the BL along there and along El Camino 
> Real...? the latter where motorists travel at 50+MPH. 
> At 09:44 AM 11/1/2007, Serge Issakov wrote: 
>>This is a terrible tragedy.? What can be learned from it? 
>> 
>>I don't think whether parking is legal in that bike lane is very
>>important.? Even if parking is illegal, if the truck was parked
>>there because it broke down there, it's understandable and should
>>not be unexpected.? Parking at the curb in a bike lane marked
> "no 
>>parking" is akin to parking in a red curb zone, or double
> parking on 
>>a surface street - at worst it's a minor infraction and not 
>>considered a serious safety hazard.? Nor should it be.?
> Bike lanes 
>>should not be thought of as guaranteed safe and clear space for 
>>cyclists, and it's dangerous to assume as much.? As tempting as
> the 
>>comparison may be, blocking a bike lane is nothing like parking in a
>>freeway traffic lane. 
>> 
>>My bias against bike lanes is well-known on this list, and this 
>>tragedy exemplifies one of my main objections to them: that they
>>instill a false sense of security in cyclists, that they induce a
>>cycling-nirvana-mindlessness that might be appropriate on an empty
>>bike path or maybe even a very quiet country road, but not on a 
>>surface street shared with motor vehicles.? I think less
> experienced 
>>cyclists, perhaps like 15 year old Nigel Clarke, are particularly
>>prone to this effect.? Can a cyclist be blamed for going too
> fast 
>>around a blind curve only a few feet from the curb where he could
>>reasonably believe he was legally obligated to be: in the bike 
>>lane?? My heart goes out to Nigel's family and friends. 
>> 
>>If you're a supporter of bike lanes, I urge you to remember Nigel,
>>and think of his family, the next time you express favor for bike
>>lanes on the basis of safety for cyclists.? There is little if
> any 
>>evidence that supports that view, and tragedies like this, which are
>>all too common, suggest the opposite may well be true: bike lanes
>>make cycling less safe, arguably even deadly. 
>> 
>>Serge 
>> 
>>-- 
>>NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily 
>>shared by any organization in which I am involved. 
>> 
>>_______________________________________________ 
>> 
>>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as
> gcarman at san.rr.com 
>>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>> 
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc 
>>List privacy information is located at
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup 
>>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send
>>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org 
> _______________________________________________ 
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as rduquete at 911law.com 
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc 
> List privacy information is located at
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup 
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail
> to postmaster at stickman-computing.org 
> Richard L. Duquette 
>  Criminal Defense & 
> Bicycle Injury Lawyer since 1983 
>  Carlsbad, CA 
>  760-730-0500 
>  www.911law.com 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From hollenbeck2001 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  4 00:22:31 2007
From: hollenbeck2001 at yahoo.com (Eric Hollenbeck)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 21:22:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <200711040231.lA42V2CI003072@ms-smtp-01.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <893456.59274.qm@web37110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

So if a tree fell in the bike lane and a rider crashed into it, who would be liable? 
And would anyone hear it? ;-)

Richard Duquette wrote: 
> List mates 
> Its very sad news indeed the death occurred. 
> I would point out that these cases can be won in court depending on the
> jury..The facts are of course important. 
> If this was a down hill and the deceased was riding within the
> posted/marked bike lane at the speed limit, I believe liability can be
> established on the landscape company because its illegal to obstruct a
> bike lane and blockage was the substantial factor causing the crash.But
> for the truck blocking the lane, there would be no death.Moreover, they
> should have posted advance cones or signs warning of the unexpected
> parked vehicle,so it appears the workers were negligently supervised or
> trained. 
> Yes there may be a comparative negligence argument, but remember to avoid
> the parked vehicle it takes time to observe,react & brake to stop or
> swerve.By then, it may have been too late if the crash occurred on a
> curve. 
> I won a similar case before a Vista jury about 10 years ago called?
>  Keith Hill v XYZ (name escapes me) landscape Co. It occurred like
> this one .(You can look it up in the Vista court public records if
> interested).The cyclist rear ended the landscape truck.There were soft
> tissue & minor neurological hand injuries and? the jury came
> back with 65-85k as I recall.Defense offer was 15k or so.It occurred in
> the Aviara section of Carlsbad. 
> Just a few thoughts. 
> Richard Duquette 
> Bicycle Injury Trial lawyer since 1983 
>  www.911law.com 
>  .At 07:53 AM 11/2/2007, you wrote: 
>  Carmel Country right in that
> area is a very fast downhill, it is not 
> unheard of to reach 30MPH downhill in that area. 
> Personally I have long left the BL and use those neat stripped areas
> to the left of the BL in this area.? The road narrows near the 
> bottom, and there is one uncontrolled intersection as well as the 
> light controlled intersection. 
> For that uncontrolled intersection, I like to be out, wide, and well
> visible, especially at 30MPH. 
> And yes landscaper trucks as well as phone company and SDGE trucks 
> have been known to park in the BL along there and along El Camino 
> Real...? the latter where motorists travel at 50+MPH. 
> At 09:44 AM 11/1/2007, Serge Issakov wrote: 
>>This is a terrible tragedy.? What can be learned from it? 
>> 
>>I don't think whether parking is legal in that bike lane is very
>>important.? Even if parking is illegal, if the truck was parked
>>there because it broke down there, it's understandable and should
>>not be unexpected.? Parking at the curb in a bike lane marked
> "no 
>>parking" is akin to parking in a red curb zone, or double
> parking on 
>>a surface street - at worst it's a minor infraction and not 
>>considered a serious safety hazard.? Nor should it be.?
> Bike lanes 
>>should not be thought of as guaranteed safe and clear space for 
>>cyclists, and it's dangerous to assume as much.? As tempting as
> the 
>>comparison may be, blocking a bike lane is nothing like parking in a
>>freeway traffic lane. 
>> 
>>My bias against bike lanes is well-known on this list, and this 
>>tragedy exemplifies one of my main objections to them: that they
>>instill a false sense of security in cyclists, that they induce a
>>cycling-nirvana-mindlessness that might be appropriate on an empty
>>bike path or maybe even a very quiet country road, but not on a 
>>surface street shared with motor vehicles.? I think less
> experienced 
>>cyclists, perhaps like 15 year old Nigel Clarke, are particularly
>>prone to this effect.? Can a cyclist be blamed for going too
> fast 
>>around a blind curve only a few feet from the curb where he could
>>reasonably believe he was legally obligated to be: in the bike 
>>lane?? My heart goes out to Nigel's family and friends. 
>> 
>>If you're a supporter of bike lanes, I urge you to remember Nigel,
>>and think of his family, the next time you express favor for bike
>>lanes on the basis of safety for cyclists.? There is little if
> any 
>>evidence that supports that view, and tragedies like this, which are
>>all too common, suggest the opposite may well be true: bike lanes
>>make cycling less safe, arguably even deadly. 
>> 
>>Serge 
>> 
>>-- 
>>NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily 
>>shared by any organization in which I am involved. 
>> 
>>_______________________________________________ 
>> 
>>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as
> gcarman at san.rr.com 
>>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>> 
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc 
>>List privacy information is located at
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup 
>>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send
>>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org 
> _______________________________________________ 
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as rduquete at 911law.com 
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to
> http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc 
> List privacy information is located at
> http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup 
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail
> to postmaster at stickman-computing.org 
> Richard L. Duquette 
>  Criminal Defense & 
> Bicycle Injury Lawyer since 1983 
>  Carlsbad, CA 
>  760-730-0500 
>  www.911law.com 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Sun Nov  4 06:02:49 2007
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 06:02:49 EST
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
Message-ID: <be5.1abdb85d.345f00d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/3/07 8:20:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
hollenbeck2001 at yahoo.com writes:

> So if a tree fell in the bike lane and a rider crashed into it, who would 
> be liable? 
> And would anyone hear it? ;-)

-------

Hello to all:

My personal attitude is that this is not a laughing matter.   We are 
discussing a tragic situation that resulted in someone dying, a young life is gone and 
a family is most certainly grieving.

People have pointed out that the cyclist could have avoided this fate had he 
been more aware and understood that the bike lane is not often not the safest 
place to ride.  I agree with that.

However, the fact remains that apparently there was truck parked illegally in 
the bicycle lane and that truck was an unnecessary hazard.  I see this on a 
regular basis and I make an effort to address the issue, either with the driver 
or if that fails, with someone at the local police station.   As we have seen 
in other threads, if given some effort, cars and trucks parked in the bike 
lane will be ticketed by the city.  And too, a camera can do wonders, the right 
photos to the right person can achieve immediate action.  

If I had ridden in the area on a regular basis and had seen trucks regularly 
parked in the bike lane, I would be asking myself if maybe further vigilance 
on my part might have avoided this tragedy.  I believe education gives riders 
their single most important safety tool but that does not prevent me or you 
from asking that laws be obeyed and Bike Lanes be respected.

When those laws are ignored and as a direct result someone is injured, I 
think it is reasonable to hold the violator accountable.  For better or for worse, 
that is the theory behind our justice system.

Jon Isaacs



**************************************
 See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From gcarman at san.rr.com  Sun Nov  4 08:19:56 2007
From: gcarman at san.rr.com (Gene Carman)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 05:19:56 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <be5.1abdb85d.345f00d9@aol.com>
References: <be5.1abdb85d.345f00d9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200711041320.lA4DKvxS023121@ms-smtp-04.socal.rr.com>

Well here is a question to be asked...  where do service vehicles 
park?  Beyond landscapers I see other service vehicles parked in BL 
quite often...  SDGE, phone company, cable company, even police while 
the latter are doing some sort of computer work or have a speed trap 
set up.  The fact is various  motorists use bike lanes for parking 
all the time.

Should these vehicles be required to park in the wider "automotive" 
lane?  That would certainly give motorists a taste of the situation 
that cyclists often face.

At 03:02 AM 11/4/2007, JonIsaacs at aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 11/3/07 8:20:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
>hollenbeck2001 at yahoo.com writes:
>
>>So if a tree fell in the bike lane and a rider crashed into it, who 
>>would be liable?
>>And would anyone hear it? ;-)
>
>
>-------
>
>Hello to all:
>
>My personal attitude is that this is not a laughing matter.   We are 
>discussing a tragic situation that resulted in someone dying, a 
>young life is gone and a family is most certainly grieving.
>
>People have pointed out that the cyclist could have avoided this 
>fate had he been more aware and understood that the bike lane is not 
>often not the safest place to ride.  I agree with that.
>
>However, the fact remains that apparently there was truck parked 
>illegally in the bicycle lane and that truck was an unnecessary 
>hazard.  I see this on a regular basis and I make an effort to 
>address the issue, either with the driver or if that fails, with 
>someone at the local police station.   As we have seen in other 
>threads, if given some effort, cars and trucks parked in the bike 
>lane will be ticketed by the city.  And too, a camera can do 
>wonders, the right photos to the right person can achieve immediate action.
>
>If I had ridden in the area on a regular basis and had seen trucks 
>regularly parked in the bike lane, I would be asking myself if maybe 
>further vigilance on my part might have avoided this tragedy.  I 
>believe education gives riders their single most important safety 
>tool but that does not prevent me or you from asking that laws be 
>obeyed and Bike Lanes be respected.
>
>When those laws are ignored and as a direct result someone is 
>injured, I think it is reasonable to hold the violator 
>accountable.  For better or for worse, that is the theory behind our 
>justice system.
>
>Jon Isaacs
>
>
>
>**************************************
>See what's new at http://www.aol.com
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
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From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  4 09:36:05 2007
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 06:36:05 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] How often do you report illegally parked vehicles in the no
 parking bike lanes?
Message-ID: <472DD8D5.8020007@earthlink.net>

Dear SDCBCers:
	How often do you phone in a report of vehicles illegally parked in NO 
PARKING bike lanes? I do that often on commutes and not-so-frequently on 
group rides.

Robert Leone


From camping.elliott at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 11:37:23 2007
From: camping.elliott at gmail.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 08:37:23 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] How often do you report illegally parked vehicles in
 the no parking bike lanes?
In-Reply-To: <472DD8D5.8020007@earthlink.net>
References: <472DD8D5.8020007@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <472DF543.8080203@gmail.com>

In Carlsbad I haven't noticed vehicles parked in posted No Parking bike 
lanes, but the recent event has alerted me to pay more attention. I reckon 
if I see one, I'll call it in.
-- 
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott




On 11/4/2007 6:36 AM Robert Leone wrote:

> Dear SDCBCers:
> 	How often do you phone in a report of vehicles illegally parked in NO 
> PARKING bike lanes? I do that often on commutes and not-so-frequently on 
> group rides.
> 
> Robert Leone
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as camping.elliott at gmail.com
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

From big50_1 at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  4 12:15:18 2007
From: big50_1 at yahoo.com (Big50_1@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 09:15:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SDCBC] 15 year old crashing into parked truck
Message-ID: <172638.15638.qm@web34508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

There are multiple lessons-learned here.
   
    -- People who obey laws will; those who don't, won't with regards to improper parking.  
  -- Our justice system sorts out who was lawful or unlawful after the fact. 
  -- Transportation mobility is a prominent feature of everyday life.
  -- In one study I saw, traffic accidents have ranked among the top 10 leading causes of death, standing at number 7 in 2000.  In 2000, traffic fatalities were 2.7 times more numerous than homicides.
  -- Teens are pretty mature today compared to when I was a kid but they still don't recognize danger around them as quickly as we adults do. 
  -- Ride within traffic conditions.
  -- There is no way to absolutely take the "sharp edges" off our streets so we don't get hurt.
  -- It really is a dangerous world out there.  
-- Constant, unrelenting vigilance is the price of safety.

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From trevorspoke at cox.net  Sun Nov  4 13:55:46 2007
From: trevorspoke at cox.net (trevorspoke at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 10:55:46 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
Message-ID: <20071104135546.0X4ZH.211268.root@fed1wml10.mgt.cox.net>

In a message dated 11/3/07 8:20:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, hollenbeck2001 at yahoo.com writes:

So if a tree fell in the bike lane and a rider crashed into it, who would be liable? 
And would anyone hear it?

This very thing did happen on Mira Mesa Blvd several years back. Like the road on which this boy died, MM lanes are quite wide and there is really no reason to be riding so far to the right, but someone apparently did run into the tree.

If there is a hazard that the City or property owner has been notified of, they could be held liable if they have not taken action. For example, if the tree was down, someone reported it, and it still hadn't been removed a week later?

Please, when you see a hazard, including unsafe incorrect traffic engineering such as on the road we discussed, report it. That lane configuration is not according to Caltrans standards that require the bike lane to parallel the other travel lanes, rather than the sidewalk.

-- Trevor

From jwstump at cox.net  Sun Nov  4 14:08:56 2007
From: jwstump at cox.net (jwstump at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 11:08:56 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Teen GHOST BIKE??
In-Reply-To: <20071104135546.0X4ZH.211268.root@fed1wml10.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20071104140856.UXKPR.202715.root@fed1wml20>

GHOST BIKE?


---- trevorspoke at cox.net wrote: 

=============
In a message dated 11/3/07 8:20:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, hollenbeck2001 at yahoo.com writes:

So if a tree fell in the bike lane and a rider crashed into it, who would be liable? 
And would anyone hear it?

This very thing did happen on Mira Mesa Blvd several years back. Like the road on which this boy died, MM lanes are quite wide and there is really no reason to be riding so far to the right, but someone apparently did run into the tree.

If there is a hazard that the City or property owner has been notified of, they could be held liable if they have not taken action. For example, if the tree was down, someone reported it, and it still hadn't been removed a week later?

Please, when you see a hazard, including unsafe incorrect traffic engineering such as on the road we discussed, report it. That lane configuration is not according to Caltrans standards that require the bike lane to parallel the other travel lanes, rather than the sidewalk.

-- Trevor
_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as jwstump at cox.net
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
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From Omar at mvps.org  Sun Nov  4 15:58:46 2007
From: Omar at mvps.org (Omar Firestone)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:58:46 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash - Larger
	Issue
Message-ID: <472E3286.8090800@mvps.org>

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From j.eldon at sbcglobal.net  Sun Nov  4 18:29:35 2007
From: j.eldon at sbcglobal.net (John Eldon)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 15:29:35 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] bike lane hazards
In-Reply-To: <20071104135546.0X4ZH.211268.root@fed1wml10.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFOEPICOAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>

How about the big road construction sign which greeted me this morning by
blocking the entire bike lane on Coast Highway 101 immediately south of
Carmel Valley Road, enroute to Torrey Pines Reserve? Fortunately the sign is
in plain view and the light early Sunday morning traffic allowed me to avoid
it quite easily and safely, but the sign still creates an unnecessary
hazard.

Also, I guess I'll have to restart compaints about Yogi's Sports Bar in
Cardiff, where the roped white plastic posts are once again infringing into
the northbound bike lane on Coast Highway 101.

There will always be unexpected hazards and cyclists do need to be taught
how to ride in a manner which mitigates danger, but why add unnecessarily to
the problem? I do like the suggestion that landscape and other utility truck
drivers be required to deploy warning cones when they block a bike lane,
particularly on a downhill sweeping right turn where speeds are high and
visibility is poor, just as they do when they block a main travel lane.

John E.

-----Original Message-----


Please, when you see a hazard, including unsafe incorrect traffic
engineering such as on the road we discussed, report it. That lane
configuration is not according to Caltrans standards that require the bike
lane to parallel the other travel lanes, rather than the sidewalk.

-- Trevor


From camping.elliott at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 19:23:43 2007
From: camping.elliott at gmail.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:23:43 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] bike lane hazards
In-Reply-To: <HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFOEPICOAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>
References: <HIEGILPMAHCBKKIEJAIFOEPICOAA.j.eldon@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <472E628F.8040904@gmail.com>

Up here in Carlsbad I recently had to deal with a huge, temporary, 
"Construction ahead" sign which the crew had planted directly in the bike 
lane on SB El Camino Real where the road narrows. The location of the sign 
forced cyclists out into a busy lane. I took a photo and emailed it to the 
Streets department with a note asking for a little mercy. Day later the 
sign was moved onto the shoulder.
-- 
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
KG6RCR



On 11/4/2007 3:29 PM John Eldon wrote:

> How about the big road construction sign which greeted me this morning by
> blocking the entire bike lane on Coast Highway 101 immediately south of
> Carmel Valley Road, enroute to Torrey Pines Reserve? Fortunately the sign is
> in plain view and the light early Sunday morning traffic allowed me to avoid
> it quite easily and safely, but the sign still creates an unnecessary
> hazard.
> 
> Also, I guess I'll have to restart compaints about Yogi's Sports Bar in
> Cardiff, where the roped white plastic posts are once again infringing into
> the northbound bike lane on Coast Highway 101.
> 
> There will always be unexpected hazards and cyclists do need to be taught
> how to ride in a manner which mitigates danger, but why add unnecessarily to
> the problem? I do like the suggestion that landscape and other utility truck
> drivers be required to deploy warning cones when they block a bike lane,
> particularly on a downhill sweeping right turn where speeds are high and
> visibility is poor, just as they do when they block a main travel lane.
> 
> John E.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> 
> Please, when you see a hazard, including unsafe incorrect traffic
> engineering such as on the road we discussed, report it. That lane
> configuration is not according to Caltrans standards that require the bike
> lane to parallel the other travel lanes, rather than the sidewalk.
> 
> -- Trevor
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as camping.elliott at gmail.com
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

From thomas.treynolds at gmail.com  Sun Nov  4 19:58:24 2007
From: thomas.treynolds at gmail.com (Thomas Reynolds)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 16:58:24 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] How often do you report illegally parked vehicles in
	the no parking bike lanes?
In-Reply-To: <472DF543.8080203@gmail.com>
References: <472DD8D5.8020007@earthlink.net> <472DF543.8080203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <998c822f0711041658g5b0aabffka37a3fa794142be6@mail.gmail.com>

When the Chargers have their preseason practice sessions they allow
fans to part all up and down Murphy Canyon Road in the bike lanes.
There are no parking signs all along that stretch.  This is on my
commute to work and back.  I have complained to the city, the
Chargers, and the police but to no avail.  Apparently the Chargers are
a sacred icon in this city (sarcasm inserted).

Tom

On Nov 4, 2007 8:37 AM, Michael Elliott <camping.elliott at gmail.com> wrote:
> In Carlsbad I haven't noticed vehicles parked in posted No Parking bike
> lanes, but the recent event has alerted me to pay more attention. I reckon
> if I see one, I'll call it in.
> --
> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>
>
>
>
> On 11/4/2007 6:36 AM Robert Leone wrote:
>
> > Dear SDCBCers:
> >       How often do you phone in a report of vehicles illegally parked in NO
> > PARKING bike lanes? I do that often on commutes and not-so-frequently on
> > group rides.
> >
> > Robert Leone
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as camping.elliott at gmail.com
>
> > To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> > List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> > For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
> _______________________________________________
>
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as thomas.treynolds at gmail.com
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>

From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Sun Nov  4 20:15:37 2007
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:15:37 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] How often do you report illegally parked vehicles in
 the no parking bike lanes?
In-Reply-To: <998c822f0711041658g5b0aabffka37a3fa794142be6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <472DD8D5.8020007@earthlink.net> <472DF543.8080203@gmail.com>
	<998c822f0711041658g5b0aabffka37a3fa794142be6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472E6EB9.2060304@earthlink.net>

Dear Thomas:
	Your experience mirrors mine. While lunching in the middle of one 
weekend ride I called the cops about Murphy Canyon Road, hundreds of 
cars, and the dispatcher asked "are the Chargers having an event?"

Robert Leone


Thomas Reynolds wrote:
> When the Chargers have their preseason practice sessions they allow
> fans to part all up and down Murphy Canyon Road in the bike lanes.
> There are no parking signs all along that stretch.  This is on my
> commute to work and back.  I have complained to the city, the
> Chargers, and the police but to no avail.  Apparently the Chargers are
> a sacred icon in this city (sarcasm inserted).
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Nov 4, 2007 8:37 AM, Michael Elliott <camping.elliott at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>In Carlsbad I haven't noticed vehicles parked in posted No Parking bike
>>lanes, but the recent event has alerted me to pay more attention. I reckon
>>if I see one, I'll call it in.
>>--
>>Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 11/4/2007 6:36 AM Robert Leone wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dear SDCBCers:
>>>      How often do you phone in a report of vehicles illegally parked in NO
>>>PARKING bike lanes? I do that often on commutes and not-so-frequently on
>>>group rides.
>>>
>>>Robert Leone
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as camping.elliott at gmail.com
>>
>>>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>>>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>>>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as thomas.treynolds at gmail.com
>>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as rob_leone at earthlink.net
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
> 



From jwstump at cox.net  Sun Nov  4 23:06:19 2007
From: jwstump at cox.net (jwstump at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 20:06:19 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Sounds like a litmus Candidate Question
In-Reply-To: <472E6EB9.2060304@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20071104230619.CGXYE.197280.root@fed1wml04.mgt.cox.net>

Friends,

The City's enforcement of laws for bikes (No Parking in Bike lanes) seems like a natural for the candidates for San Diego elections.  Bikers should know how the Candidates will act before they are Mayor or Council person.

Every other group sends out questionnaires and has forums.

All the best,
John Stump

---- Robert Leone <rob_leone at earthlink.net> wrote: 

=============
Dear Thomas:
	Your experience mirrors mine. While lunching in the middle of one 
weekend ride I called the cops about Murphy Canyon Road, hundreds of 
cars, and the dispatcher asked "are the Chargers having an event?"

Robert Leone


Thomas Reynolds wrote:
> When the Chargers have their preseason practice sessions they allow
> fans to part all up and down Murphy Canyon Road in the bike lanes.
> There are no parking signs all along that stretch.  This is on my
> commute to work and back.  I have complained to the city, the
> Chargers, and the police but to no avail.  Apparently the Chargers are
> a sacred icon in this city (sarcasm inserted).
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Nov 4, 2007 8:37 AM, Michael Elliott <camping.elliott at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>In Carlsbad I haven't noticed vehicles parked in posted No Parking bike
>>lanes, but the recent event has alerted me to pay more attention. I reckon
>>if I see one, I'll call it in.
>>--
>>Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 11/4/2007 6:36 AM Robert Leone wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dear SDCBCers:
>>>      How often do you phone in a report of vehicles illegally parked in NO
>>>PARKING bike lanes? I do that often on commutes and not-so-frequently on
>>>group rides.
>>>
>>>Robert Leone
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as camping.elliott at gmail.com
>>
>>>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>>>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>>>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as thomas.treynolds at gmail.com
>>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as rob_leone at earthlink.net
> To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
> List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
> For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
> 


_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as jwstump at cox.net
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

From trevorspoke at cox.net  Mon Nov  5 05:55:30 2007
From: trevorspoke at cox.net (trevorspoke at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 2:55:30 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] bike lane hazards
Message-ID: <20071105055530.UBWIV.117290.root@fed1wml17>

John Eldonw wrote:

"How about the big road construction sign which greeted me this morning by blocking the entire bike lane on Coast Highway 101 immediately south of Carmel Valley Road, enroute to Torrey Pines Reserve? Fortunately the sign is in plain view and the light early Sunday morning traffic allowed me to avoid it quite easily and safely, but the sign still creates an unnecessary hazard."

John has touched on probably one of the most sensitive topics to me. Road Construction begins 100 feet ahead signs are clearly intended to be read by motorists, for they are planted in the bike lane.

Unnecessary is a separate question about the hazard, however. You couldn't put them on the sidewalk, for as we all know nobody would see them there (they are too far out of the roadway), and they would create hazard for high-speed non-vehicular traffic (skaters, segway operators, runners). Putting them in the median usually isn't practical.

I have been thinking about this problem, and my solution is to project the sign onto the roadway from overhead, where the placement of the hanger (if one is not already convenient) can be well out of the roadway, and the sign itself can be placed more usefully in front of affected traffic lanes without itself being an obstruction. Low-tech solution could be just to hang a sign overhead, but there are bigger plans for what you could do if you always had traffic engineering projection systems. Imagine virtual stripes, for example; or virtual bicyclists.

Favorite ironic signs:
Steel plates ahead (think what will happen if cyclist runs into that sign)
Shoulder work (same thing)

-- Trevor

p.s. One of my theories on inattentive driving is that the activity is boring, why not find something productive to do with your time as long as it doesn't even require all your attention. Entertainment in transportation (paying attention all the time required) is something we all know, and love. I think adding such systems to the roadway for motorist benefit would be good for everybody. The alternative is to give everyone a chauffeur, and train and pay those guys like professionals.

From jwstump at cox.net  Mon Nov  5 08:51:39 2007
From: jwstump at cox.net (jwstump at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 5:51:39 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] "... give everyone a chauffeur" = Mass Transit
In-Reply-To: <20071105055530.UBWIV.117290.root@fed1wml17>
Message-ID: <20071105085139.5RWKK.199015.root@fed1wml04.mgt.cox.net>

Trevor,

You are so right driving can be boring and can lead to inattentiveness.  There are just too many bored drivers on the road.

I like your full employment idea of "... give everyone a chauffeur".  Unfortunately there is not a driver to match every other driver.  Mass transit - one driver for many is part of the answer.

Luckily, the other answer is coming $4/gallon gas.  Soon plug ins will replace the long range cruisers.  More folks will rejoin the land of the local living.

All the best
John
---- trevorspoke at cox.net wrote: 

=============
John Eldonw wrote:

"How about the big road construction sign which greeted me this morning by blocking the entire bike lane on Coast Highway 101 immediately south of Carmel Valley Road, enroute to Torrey Pines Reserve? Fortunately the sign is in plain view and the light early Sunday morning traffic allowed me to avoid it quite easily and safely, but the sign still creates an unnecessary hazard."

John has touched on probably one of the most sensitive topics to me. Road Construction begins 100 feet ahead signs are clearly intended to be read by motorists, for they are planted in the bike lane.

Unnecessary is a separate question about the hazard, however. You couldn't put them on the sidewalk, for as we all know nobody would see them there (they are too far out of the roadway), and they would create hazard for high-speed non-vehicular traffic (skaters, segway operators, runners). Putting them in the median usually isn't practical.

I have been thinking about this problem, and my solution is to project the sign onto the roadway from overhead, where the placement of the hanger (if one is not already convenient) can be well out of the roadway, and the sign itself can be placed more usefully in front of affected traffic lanes without itself being an obstruction. Low-tech solution could be just to hang a sign overhead, but there are bigger plans for what you could do if you always had traffic engineering projection systems. Imagine virtual stripes, for example; or virtual bicyclists.

Favorite ironic signs:
Steel plates ahead (think what will happen if cyclist runs into that sign)
Shoulder work (same thing)

-- Trevor

p.s. One of my theories on inattentive driving is that the activity is boring, why not find something productive to do with your time as long as it doesn't even require all your attention. Entertainment in transportation (paying attention all the time required) is something we all know, and love. I think adding such systems to the roadway for motorist benefit would be good for everybody. The alternative is to give everyone a chauffeur, and train and pay those guys like professionals.
_______________________________________________

You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as jwstump at cox.net
To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Mon Nov  5 09:08:24 2007
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:08:24 EST
Subject: [SDCBC] How often do you report illegally parked vehicles in
	the no parki...
Message-ID: <c7a.1fc6e7a1.34607dd8@aol.com>

Dear Thomas:
  Your experience mirrors mine. While lunching in the middle of one 
weekend ride I called the cops about Murphy Canyon Road, hundreds of 
cars, and the dispatcher asked "are the Chargers having an event?"

Robert Leone
------

Though it may not have much effect,  some time spent with a camera taking a 
variety of photos is definite ammunition.  Photos that included both license 
plates and the No Parking Bike Lane Sign would be good as well as some photos of 
the mess in general.  

I think it is easy to ignore people's phone calls but photographs are a 
different matter, hard evidence.  

And too, I imagine Joel is reading this, I wonder what he has to say...

Jon



**************************************
 See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From abulifia1 at cox.net  Mon Nov  5 09:51:21 2007
From: abulifia1 at cox.net (Abulifia)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 06:51:21 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] bike lane hazards
In-Reply-To: <20071105055530.UBWIV.117290.root@fed1wml17>
References: <20071105055530.UBWIV.117290.root@fed1wml17>
Message-ID: <472F2DE9.90500@cox.net>

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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Mon Nov  5 10:49:37 2007
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 07:49:37 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] How often do you report illegally parked vehicles
	in	the no parki...
In-Reply-To: <c7a.1fc6e7a1.34607dd8@aol.com>
References: <c7a.1fc6e7a1.34607dd8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003501c81fc3$784aa220$68dfe660$@org>

It might be that the Chargers have a special events permit that allows
on-street parking for their practices. I can try to find out.

Kathy

 

From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org [mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]
On Behalf Of JonIsaacs at aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:08 AM
To: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] How often do you report illegally parked vehicles in
the no parki...

 

Dear Thomas:
  Your experience mirrors mine. While lunching in the middle of one 
weekend ride I called the cops about Murphy Canyon Road, hundreds of 
cars, and the dispatcher asked "are the Chargers having an event?"

Robert Leone
------

Though it may not have much effect,  some time spent with a camera taking a
variety of photos is definite ammunition.  Photos that included both license
plates and the No Parking Bike Lane Sign would be good as well as some
photos of the mess in general.  

I think it is easy to ignore people's phone calls but photographs are a
different matter, hard evidence.  

And too, I imagine Joel is reading this, I wonder what he has to say...

Jon



**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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From jwstump at cox.net  Mon Nov  5 11:31:29 2007
From: jwstump at cox.net (jwstump at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 8:31:29 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] In addition to the Chargers, the Spanos companies comprise
 of the following: A.G. Spanos Construction, Inc.;
 A.G. Spanos Management, Inc.; A.G. Spanos Development, Inc.; A.G. Spanos
In-Reply-To: <003501c81fc3$784aa220$68dfe660$@org>
Message-ID: <20071105113129.AE1E9.227407.root@fed1wml05.mgt.cox.net>

Ms. Keehan,

Sounds like a sound approach.  Please do not cut the private for profit Chargers entrainment corporation park all over the rest of us. ( In addition to the Chargers, the Spanos companies comprise of the following: A.G. Spanos Construction, Inc.; A.G. Spanos Management, Inc.; A.G. Spanos Development, Inc.; A.G. Spanos.  Enterprises, Inc.; A.G. Spanos Realty, Inc.; AGS Financial Corporation; AGS International Corporation; A.G. Spanos Securities Corporation, A.G. Spanos Ventures and The Spanos Corporation.)

IS the SDCDC) contacted by the Cities when someone proposes closing the Bike lanes.  A general letter requesting notice and ability to comments on a closures.  Maybe a temporary bike lane should be required like when side walks are closed.

Thanks for all you do & all the best.
John Stump

---- Kathy Keehan <execdir at sdcbc.org> wrote: 

=============
It might be that the Chargers have a special events permit that allows
on-street parking for their practices. I can try to find out.

Kathy

 

From: sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org [mailto:sdcbc-bounces at bikesandiego.org]
On Behalf Of JonIsaacs at aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:08 AM
To: sdcbc at bikesandiego.org
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] How often do you report illegally parked vehicles in
the no parki...

 

Dear Thomas:
  Your experience mirrors mine. While lunching in the middle of one 
weekend ride I called the cops about Murphy Canyon Road, hundreds of 
cars, and the dispatcher asked "are the Chargers having an event?"

Robert Leone
------

Though it may not have much effect,  some time spent with a camera taking a
variety of photos is definite ammunition.  Photos that included both license
plates and the No Parking Bike Lane Sign would be good as well as some
photos of the mess in general.  

I think it is easy to ignore people's phone calls but photographs are a
different matter, hard evidence.  

And too, I imagine Joel is reading this, I wonder what he has to say...

Jon



**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com

From tobin at broadcom.com  Tue Nov  6 18:29:04 2007
From: tobin at broadcom.com (tobin at broadcom.com)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 15:29:04 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] bike lane hazards
Message-ID: <4730F8C0.nail3GB11TSJE@xl-sdoa-01.broadcom.com>

On a positive note on bike lane hazard resolution, a submission to Street
Division online form (limited to 255 characters -- how lame!) got prompt,
<5 day, action correcting this problem.  Bravo, Street Division!

Roy

  street_service at sandiego.gov  Oct 29
  Bicycle lanes recently blocked by construction K-rail.

    The construction foreman on the project at the exchange of I15 and Camino
    del Norte (CdN) has been very good at keeping the bicycle lanes open.
    However, now recently moved K-rail impeedes the safety of the bicycle
    traffic lane in two spots.

    I'm writing to have this oversight immediately corrected.

    The first problem is on east bound CdN, just east of the interchange.
    The last of about a dozen K-rail segments protrudes into, and abruptly
    totally blocks, the bicycle traffic lane.

    The second is on west bound CdN, just west of the interchange.  Here, the
    first of a long string of K-rails totally block the bicycle traffic lane.
    This one is esp. dangerous, as a bicycle commuter must take the lane
    under the I-15 overpass, which is of course in the shade.  There is no
    need for this safey hazard to exist EVEN DURING THE CONSTRUCTION.

    A simple re-alignment of small k-rail sections is all that is needed to
    restore the great accommodation we non-polluting bicycle commuters once
    enjoyed, even during the construction.

    RoyT

  Subject: Street Division Response
       Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:10:24 -0700
      From: street_service at sandiego.gov
	 To: tobin at broadcom.com

  Thank you for your recent request to the Street Division.  We have
  determined from the information provided that this area of responsibility
  belongs to: Field Engineering, to contact the Resident Engineer regarding
  the construction at this location. Your request will be forwarded to that
  Department.

  Referral provided: YES

  Street Division Customer Service.
  619-527-7500



From tbrooks at qualcomm.com  Mon Nov  5 10:29:48 2007
From: tbrooks at qualcomm.com (Tim Brooks)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 07:29:48 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] 10news.com Teenager Killed In Carmel Valley Bike Crash
In-Reply-To: <200711041320.lA4DKvxS023121@ms-smtp-04.socal.rr.com>
References: <be5.1abdb85d.345f00d9@aol.com>
	<200711041320.lA4DKvxS023121@ms-smtp-04.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20071105072751.02ba4ce0@qualcomm.com>

There's a landscaping truck up the hill from the accident scene right 
now--they have set up 4-5 orange cones up to about 70 feet above 
them.  This seems reasonable to me.

At 05:19 AM 11/4/2007, Gene Carman wrote:
>Well here is a question to be asked...  where do service vehicles 
>park?  Beyond landscapers I see other service vehicles parked in BL 
>quite often...  SDGE, phone company, cable company, even police 
>while the latter are doing some sort of computer work or have a 
>speed trap set up.  The fact is various  motorists use bike lanes 
>for parking all the time.
>
>Should these vehicles be required to park in the wider "automotive" 
>lane?  That would certainly give motorists a taste of the situation 
>that cyclists often face.
>
>At 03:02 AM 11/4/2007, JonIsaacs at aol.com wrote:
>>In a message dated 11/3/07 8:20:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
>>hollenbeck2001 at yahoo.com writes:
>>
>>>So if a tree fell in the bike lane and a rider crashed into it, 
>>>who would be liable?
>>>And would anyone hear it? ;-)
>>
>>
>>-------
>>
>>Hello to all:
>>
>>My personal attitude is that this is not a laughing matter.   We 
>>are discussing a tragic situation that resulted in someone dying, a 
>>young life is gone and a family is most certainly grieving.
>>
>>People have pointed out that the cyclist could have avoided this 
>>fate had he been more aware and understood that the bike lane is 
>>not often not the safest place to ride.  I agree with that.
>>
>>However, the fact remains that apparently there was truck parked 
>>illegally in the bicycle lane and that truck was an unnecessary 
>>hazard.  I see this on a regular basis and I make an effort to 
>>address the issue, either with the driver or if that fails, with 
>>someone at the local police station.   As we have seen in other 
>>threads, if given some effort, cars and trucks parked in the bike 
>>lane will be ticketed by the city.  And too, a camera can do 
>>wonders, the right photos to the right person can achieve immediate action.
>>
>>If I had ridden in the area on a regular basis and had seen trucks 
>>regularly parked in the bike lane, I would be asking myself if 
>>maybe further vigilance on my part might have avoided this 
>>tragedy.  I believe education gives riders their single most 
>>important safety tool but that does not prevent me or you from 
>>asking that laws be obeyed and Bike Lanes be respected.
>>
>>When those laws are ignored and as a direct result someone is 
>>injured, I think it is reasonable to hold the violator 
>>accountable.  For better or for worse, that is the theory behind 
>>our justice system.
>>
>>Jon Isaacs
>>
>>
>>
>>**************************************
>>See what's new at http://www.aol.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
>>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as timbrooks at global.t-bird.edu
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org



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From wondernerd at juno.com  Tue Nov  6 23:00:44 2007
From: wondernerd at juno.com (Frank  Paiano)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 04:00:44 GMT
Subject: [SDCBC]  Reason very rarely has any relationship with the law
Message-ID: <20071106.200044.29010.0@webmail14.vgs.untd.com>

If it is illegal to park in the bike lane, then "reason" doesn't enter into the equation.  They should not park there.  

Just my humble opinion...

Frank Paiano



.
.
.
.



.
.
.
.

_____________________________________________________________
Free information - Art School Scholarship. Click now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iighsfIaNd4dErPxvLHfHG1cybT1PJsodRNZ5h3BXO086L4EC/

-------------- next part --------------
There's a landscaping truck up the hill from the accident scene right 
now--they have set up 4-5 orange cones up to about 70 feet above 
them.  This seems reasonable to me.

At 05:19 AM 11/4/2007, Gene Carman wrote:
>Well here is a question to be asked...  where do service vehicles 
>park?  Beyond landscapers I see other service vehicles parked in BL 
>quite often...  SDGE, phone company, cable company, even police 
>while the latter are doing some sort of computer work or have a 
>speed trap set up.  The fact is various  motorists use bike lanes 
>for parking all the time.
>
>Should these vehicles be required to park in the wider "automotive" 
>lane?  That would certainly give motorists a taste of the situation 
>that cyclists often face.
>
>At 03:02 AM 11/4/2007, JonIsaacs at aol.com wrote:
>>In a message dated 11/3/07 8:20:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
>>hollenbeck2001 at yahoo.com writes:
>>
>>>So if a tree fell in the bike lane and a rider crashed into it, 
>>>who would be liable?
>>>And would anyone hear it? ;-)
>>
>>
>>-------
>>
>>Hello to all:
>>
>>My personal attitude is that this is not a laughing matter.   We 
>>are discussing a tragic situation that resulted in someone dying, a 
>>young life is gone and a family is most certainly grieving.
>>
>>People have pointed out that the cyclist could have avoided this 
>>fate had he been more aware and understood that the bike lane is 
>>not often not the safest place to ride.  I agree with that.
>>
>>However, the fact remains that apparently there was truck parked 
>>illegally in the bicycle lane and that truck was an unnecessary 
>>hazard.  I see this on a regular basis and I make an effort to 
>>address the issue, either with the driver or if that fails, with 
>>someone at the local police station.   As we have seen in other 
>>threads, if given some effort, cars and trucks parked in the bike 
>>lane will be ticketed by the city.  And too, a camera can do 
>>wonders, the right photos to the right person can achieve immediate action.
>>
>>If I had ridden in the area on a regular basis and had seen trucks 
>>regularly parked in the bike lane, I would be asking myself if 
>>maybe further vigilance on my part might have avoided this 
>>tragedy.  I believe education gives riders their single most 
>>important safety tool but that does not prevent me or you from 
>>asking that laws be obeyed and Bike Lanes be respected.
>>
>>When those laws are ignored and as a direct result someone is 
>>injured, I think it is reasonable to hold the violator 
>>accountable.  For better or for worse, that is the theory behind 
>>our justice system.
>>
>>Jon Isaacs
>>
>>
>>
>>**************************************
>>See what's new at http://www.aol.com
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
>>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as timbrooks at global.t-bird.edu
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org



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From stephanvance at cox.net  Wed Nov  7 01:37:55 2007
From: stephanvance at cox.net (Stephan Vance)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 22:37:55 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] FW: Opportunity to Bid for Wind Tunnel Experience for
	Fundraiser
Message-ID: <002901c82108$bac0c670$5c136b44@D9CXGJ41>

A coworker asked me to pass along this opportunity to support a community
social service group and have the unique experience of testing your riding
position in a wind tunnel.

 

Stephan Vance

 

 

The Bayside  <http://www.baysidecc.org/> Community Center is hosting a gala
fundraiser to celebrate its 75 years of providing critical social services
to the Linda Vista community of Bayside. As part of the gala they are doing
an online auction beginning November 11 and ending the night of the gala,
November 17.
 
Bayside received a fantastic donation from the San Diego Air & Space
Technology Center for the Bayside Online
<http://www.baysidecc.org/75gala/index.html>  Auction. As this is a very
specialized item I thought that you might be able to get the word out about
this great opportunity.

Bidding Opens November 11 at Bayside Auction Site
<http://www.baysidecc.org/75gala/page_auction.html> 

Wind Tunnel Experience

Have you ever wondered how much time you are giving up on your bike due to
aerodynamics? Are you putting in hours of training that is being undermined
by a poor position on the bike? There's only one way to find out for sure,
and that is by getting the "Ultimate bike Fit" at the San Diego Air & Space
Technology Center Low Speed Wind tunnel. The engineers at the wind tunnel
have experience testing over 200 cyclists including Tour de France champion,
Lance Armstrong as well as numerous Ironman World Champions and they will
put this experience to work for you.

The auction winner will spend one hour in the wind tunnel optimizing his or
her cycling position to product the minimum amount of drag without
sacrificing power output. In addition the winner can invite up to 19 guests
to observe the testing and get a tour of the facility.
 
Upon completion of the test, the winner will receive two DVDs featuring the
entire ride in the tunnel, including multiple viewing angles and coaching
commentary. In addition, a photo CD will be provided to document every
position and equipment change that was done during the test. Upon completion
of the test, a data sheet will be provided that gives all values from each
test point taken.

A gourmet box lunch will be provided for the winner and 19 guests following
the test session.

Value: $1,600
 
Restrictions/Other
 
The San Diego Air & Space Technology Center low speed wind tunnel is located
at 3050 Pacific Highway, San Diego, CA 92101.  Visit our website:
www.lswt.com 

The wind tunnel test, tour and lunch package is subject to availability and
must be pre scheduled. The low speed wind tunnel is a functioning business
which provides testing to many corporations and individuals.

Because the building is older and is not normally accessed by the public,
the test location on the second floor is accessible by some, but not
necessarily by all handicapped guests.


Bayside Community Center
"Celebrating 75 Years of Service (1932-2007)"
www.baysidecc.org
 

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From execdir at sdcbc.org  Wed Nov  7 12:50:04 2007
From: execdir at sdcbc.org (Kathy Keehan)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 09:50:04 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Upcoming events
Message-ID: <007501c82166$a1e947e0$e5bbd7a0$@org>

Mark your calendars!

 

Tonight, Wednesday November 7, Board Meeting. Strategy session to set the
course of the Coalition over the next year or two. 7:00 at the Coalition
office. 740 13th St, Suite 220. 

 

Sunday, November 11, Ride and Learn, Liberty Station in honor of Veteran's
Day. Meet at 9:15 for a 9:30 start. Meet in the parking lot of Trader Joe's
in on Decatur St. 8-10 mile flat ride with opportunities to learn some good
tips for urban riding.

 

Wednesday, November 14th, Volunteer night. 6:30 to 8:30 p.m. Coalition
office, 740 13th St, Suite 220. Food and fun - don't miss it!

 

Saturday November 17th. Southbay Expressway grand opening ride. Ride starts
at the Birch Road onramp, 8:00 a.m. 

 

 

------------------------------------------

Kathy Keehan

Executive Director

San Diego County Bicycle Coalition

P.O. Box 34544

San Diego, CA 92163

858.487.6063

execdir at sdcbc.org

www.sdcbc.org

 

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From nealhe at cox.net  Thu Nov  8 12:41:35 2007
From: nealhe at cox.net (Neal Henderson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:41:35 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers
Message-ID: <004a01c8222e$9bf7fde0$6901a8c0@NealDesk>

Clipped from SlowTwitch:

 

Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers

 

 
<http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ed
e0dde1.html>
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede
0dde1.html 




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From sachiwilson at sbcglobal.net  Thu Nov  8 12:45:02 2007
From: sachiwilson at sbcglobal.net (Sachi Wilson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 09:45:02 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers
In-Reply-To: <004a01c8222e$9bf7fde0$6901a8c0@NealDesk>
References: <004a01c8222e$9bf7fde0$6901a8c0@NealDesk>
Message-ID: <83EF0273-05D9-4621-8655-7789313C8334@sbcglobal.net>


On 8 Nov 2007, at 9:41 am, Neal Henderson wrote:

> Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers
>
> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html

A caution.  this is an OREGON law, not a CA law.  Don't go around  
assuming you can issue "tickets" to California drivers.  (Even though  
they may deserve not just tickets, but summary execution.  ;-)  )



Sachi Wilson
*Safety Queen*




From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Thu Nov  8 12:53:35 2007
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 12:53:35 EST
Subject: [SDCBC] Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers
Message-ID: <bbe.1a61f0d5.3464a71f@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/8/07 9:46:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
sachiwilson at sbcglobal.net writes:

> Sachi Wilson
> *Safety Queen*

Safety Queen and Voice of Reason...

Jon


**************************************
 See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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From sachiwilson at sbcglobal.net  Thu Nov  8 13:00:00 2007
From: sachiwilson at sbcglobal.net (Sachi Wilson)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:00:00 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers
In-Reply-To: <bbe.1a61f0d5.3464a71f@aol.com>
References: <bbe.1a61f0d5.3464a71f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FF27EE8F-C6B0-45EE-8598-9329D054EDB6@sbcglobal.net>


On 8 Nov 2007, at 9:53 am, JonIsaacs at aol.com wrote:

> Safety Queen and Voice of Reason...

Only SOMEtimes.  ;-)

Sachi Wilson
*Safety Queen*




From cyclemedia at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  8 17:48:30 2007
From: cyclemedia at yahoo.com (Lauren Cooper (DancesWithCars))
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 14:48:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [SDCBC] Help Wanted: Volunteer Bike-Activists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1194270713.28937.sdcbc@bikesandiego.org>
Message-ID: <963027.3926.qm@web30213.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Please do not hit reply;  email CycleMedia at hotmail.com

We're seeking Volunteer Bike-Activists to take up our existing
police-endorsed *Advanced* Traffic-Bicycling pamphlet, currently available
throughout the San Diego CA region, and get it to more libraries and
schools; use it to create TV news, letters/editor, Op-Ed articles; educate
drivers in driving schools, bus truck & taxi drivers, college students 

and whatever else you'd like to create.  We're very flexible.  All printing
costs are paid by us.

Police endorsement already enabled us to make it available in many public
libraries, police stations, bike shops, and high schools.  We still need to
get it to others, as well as to Drivers-Ed schools, bus-driver training
classes, area truck fleets, college libraries, and resupply area bike
shops.  Most bike shop managers really appreciate it and need to be
resupplied regularly.

Use our pamphlet to promote and publicize equal rights for cyclists,
existing bike-friendly laws, and whatever else you'd like.   

Thank you for your thought and consideration.

Lauren Cooper, Traffic-Bicycling Teacher
Chief J.W. Rittenhouse,  Ret. Chief of Police
CycleMedia.org/ercc 
760.730.3739

"The main purpose of bike safety education is to minimize crashes and
injuries. In order to do that, you have to know the most common causes of
crashes."
 ----  Cpl. Tom Sipin, Bicycling Instructor-Trainer, Wisc. DOT
"The attitude toward safety that is prevalent in swimming, boating, scuba
diving, and other activities which expose participants to an inherent risk,
stands in stark contrast to the "I learned everything there is to learn
about bicycling in kindergarten" attitude that is prevalent in bicycling."
  ----  John Allen, author of State Bicycle-Driver Manuals for PA, OH, FL,
AZ, ID
"Many officers know how to ride bikes; why do we need training?   Far fewer
know how to cycle in complex traffic ... the League of American Bicyclists
is able to educate cyclists how to safely, legally, and efficiently use
bicycles as a means of transportation ... (it's) serious training in safe,
legal riding techniques."   
 ----  International Police Mountain Bike Association   www.IPMBA.org 
"Bicycle riders and motorists must cooperate in both obeying the rules and
in treating each other fairly.  The schools ought to teach this cooperation
both to bicycling-aged children and to motoring-aged youth.  The rules
follow easily understood principles and provide equal protection for all. 
Nobody can operate safely without the ability to obey these principles."
  ----  John Forester, M.S., B.E., Traffic-Bicycling Engineer
author of "Bicycle Transportation Engineering" and "Effective Cycling"




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From abulifia1 at cox.net  Thu Nov  8 20:47:57 2007
From: abulifia1 at cox.net (Abulifia)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 17:47:57 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers
In-Reply-To: <004a01c8222e$9bf7fde0$6901a8c0@NealDesk>
References: <004a01c8222e$9bf7fde0$6901a8c0@NealDesk>
Message-ID: <4733BC4D.30206@cox.net>

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From JimBaross at cox.net  Thu Nov  8 21:21:14 2007
From: JimBaross at cox.net (Jim Baross)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 18:21:14 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers
In-Reply-To: <83EF0273-05D9-4621-8655-7789313C8334@sbcglobal.net>
References: <004a01c8222e$9bf7fde0$6901a8c0@NealDesk>
	<83EF0273-05D9-4621-8655-7789313C8334@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20071108101355.03a0e8b8@cox.net>

I haven't found yet a reference I have somewhere to a program in ?a 
midwestern state? where anyone may submit a report of a traffic 
violation that triggers an informational letter to the registered 
owner of the vehicle involved stating that a report was sent from a 
witness to an illegal behavior and also includes the text of the 
related traffic law. No penalty, fine or points are levied or 
threatened against the vehicle owner; only information about the law 
and the date, time and location of the alleged misdeed. Having a 
process like this available to me would (1) alleviate my anger 
somewhat when I experience some motorist doing something stupid or 
criminal; (2) notify the vehicle owner that (a) she/he or (b) someone 
he/she allowed to use his/her car was seen doing something wrong; and 
(3) may educate the vehicle operator about what the law actually requires.

I'd pay to be able to get a letter like that sent to the drivers who need it!

Other ideas:

Though dated, this might be useful now. It's info I got in 2000.
Subject: Reporting illegal driving behavior

Officer Jeffrey L. Briggs of the CHP provided a training/talk re: 
road rage today to the City employees in the [former] City Attorney's 
Office.  Officer Briggs said that the local CHP will take reports of 
illegal driving/road use behavior. If an emergency - report it 
immediately to 911.
If an after the fact issue, we can provide the info to the CHP and, 
if appropriate, they will write a letter to the registered owner 
about the reported incident.
He said that they keep records of reports and have forwarded repeaters to DMV.
Number to call for non-emergency issues,
220-5492.
Address for written reports,
California Highway Patrol
4902 Pacific Hwy
San Diego CA  92110

Other examples of methods/means for people to report traffic "bad 
behavior" issues:

for reporting moving violations on Camp Pendleton;
www.cpp.usmc.mil/tvr/index.htm

Reporting illegal/bad driving to a City Council (in another state);
http://www.hume.vic.gov.au/Files/DrivingDL.pdf

At 09:45 AM 11/8/2007, Sachi Wilson wrote:

>On 8 Nov 2007, at 9:41 am, Neal Henderson wrote:
>
> > Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers
> >
> > 
> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html
>
>A caution.  this is an OREGON law, not a CA law.  Don't go around
>assuming you can issue "tickets" to California drivers.  (Even though
>they may deserve not just tickets, but summary execution.  ;-)  )
>
>
>
>Sachi Wilson
>*Safety Queen*
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as jimbaross at cox.net
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org

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From JimBaross at cox.net  Fri Nov  9 02:57:13 2007
From: JimBaross at cox.net (Jim Baross)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 23:57:13 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Notification to drivers,
 was Re:  Cyclists can issue  tickets to bad drivers
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20071108234653.03aa1ae0@cox.net>

I found the source for the info I had about 
notifying "bad" drivers; Missouri Bicycle Federation;
http://mobikefed.org/motoristcontact.html

Here's a copy of the letter they send and answers 
to some questions I had about their program below that.

Anyone want to take this on as a project to get 
going in San Diego... or the whole State? Perhaps 
as an educational function of the Coalition?... 
for members only?... for a fee? ... or funded via 
some grant and available to anyone?

Jim B.

Here's their letter:
[]

Missouri Bicycle Federation, Inc.
Post Office Box 104871, Jefferson City, MO 65110-4871
MoBikeFed.org
Making Missouri a better place to ride a bicycle!

?FirstNameOf_Motorist? ?LastNameOfMotorist?
?Address?
?City?, ?State?            ?ZipCode?

Dear  ?Title?. ?FirstNameOf_Motorist? ?LastNameOfMotorist?,

The Missouri Bicycle Federation has been 
requested to share the enclosed information about 
Missouri law in reference to bicycles.

We were told that at approximately ?Time?, 
?DateOfIncident?, on ?Road?, a person driving a 
?VehicleDescription? with license number 
?LicenseNumber? had an encounter with a 
bicyclist. The bicyclist interpreted this 
encounter to be dangerous or threatening.

Perhaps this incident was a misunderstanding. 
Nonetheless, we would like to remind you that 
under the state law of all fifty states, 
including Missouri, bicyclists are allowed to use 
all roads and highways except interstate highway 
lanes or those very few locations where posted signs prohibit bicycles.

By Missouri State Statute 307.188 the bicycle is 
considered a vehicle and the bicyclist has all 
the rights and responsibilities of any other 
driver. Bicyclists are required to obey traffic 
laws just as motorists must, signaling turns, 
stopping at stop lights, using turn lanes and so on.

Motorists are required to treat bicyclists with 
the same degree of courtesy and safety as they would any other road user.

We encourage all to share the roads in a 
courteous fashion. Should you have any questions, 
please contact us. Thank you for your cooperation.

Sincerely,


Morgan J Bearden
Missouri Bicycle Federation Motorist Contact Chair

Bicycle-related Quotes from the Missouri Driver Guide
- snipped -

Summary of Missouri State Statutes Related to Bicycling
- snipped -

<<<<<<

Here are some answers they provided to questions I had:

by what means do you access a mailing address based on a car license number?

In Missouri, one is able to apply for an account 
that allows one to get information from the 
Department of Revenue. I?m not the one who did 
it, but I think it is a pretty straightforward 
process ? all you have to do is prove that you 
have a ligitmate reason to have access to the 
information. I think repo companies, towing 
companies, and maybe private investigators use this service.

We have an account and a password ? it cost about 
$2.00 per license plate. We used to do it by 
phone, but recently the state has converted over 
to an on-line system ? we are having trouble 
getting that set up, but it should be worked out soon.

what measures of success could I point to?

It is difficult to measure success with this 
program. There is a great deal of satisfaction on 
the part of the person who reports the incident 
because they feel like something is being done to 
communicate the problem to the operator of the 
automobile. We have received a response from only 
one motorist as far as I know.

We all like to think that there is some chilling 
effect on the motorist since they realize that we 
know who they are and where they live. However, a 
key component of the program is that I am the 
only one who knows the identity of both the 
bicyclists and the motorist ? noone else sees the names or addresses.

A year or two ago we made the letter much more 
generic. We used to recount the incident (from 
the perspective of the bicyclist, of course), but 
we were advised by some one (a lawyer?) to tone 
it down and make the letter less accusatory and more generic.

any history of successful prosecution when your 
data shows a significant number of complaints for one car/driver?

As far as I know, there has never been any use of 
this information in any sort of legal proceeding. 
We do keep a simple database of the names, 
license numbers, etc of each incident.

We haven?t seen any repeat offenders, but we do 
have a few bicyclists in the state who seem to 
have more than their share of run-ins with 
motorists. I?m pretty open-minded about the whole 
issue and will readily admit that there are jerky 
folks everywhere: behind the wheel, on motorcycles, in boats, and on bicycles.

I have enclosed a sample of the older style 
letter (recounting the incident) and another that 
is the more generic letter we currently use.  
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From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  9 07:31:00 2007
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 04:31:00 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Nobel Drive Bike Lane Double Feature!
Message-ID: <47345304.4030209@earthlink.net>

Dear SDCBCers:
	The cellphone got a workout yesterday on the ride home. TWO cars parked 
in the no parking bike lane on Nobel Drive westbound between Danica Mae 
and Lebon. I called them in separately, as the black four dour Jetta had 
a person on her cell phone in it, and I wanted to give her a chance. I 
advised her she was in violation of the vehicle code, she told me I was 
the first person who ever brought it up, I left it at that and called 
the police (SDPD 1-619-531-2000, easy to rememeber thanks to Reynolds 
531 tubing). Bonus, a "whoa, that guy nearly got clouted trying to pass 
that car with license plate number XXXXXX parked in the bike lane" 
remark to the dispatcher.

	Ride safe.

Robert Leone


From sachiwilson at sbcglobal.net  Fri Nov  9 09:43:56 2007
From: sachiwilson at sbcglobal.net (Sachi Wilson)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 06:43:56 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Notification to drivers,
	was Re:  Cyclists can issue  tickets to bad drivers
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20071108234653.03aa1ae0@cox.net>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20071108234653.03aa1ae0@cox.net>
Message-ID: <1CBA0AC1-2111-4750-B2EC-CCB21EC3961A@sbcglobal.net>


On 8 Nov 2007, at 11:57 pm, Jim Baross wrote:

> I found the source for the info I had about notifying "bad" drivers;  
> Missouri Bicycle Federation;
> http://mobikefed.org/motoristcontact.html
>
> Here's a copy of the letter they send and answers to some questions  
> I had about their program below that.
>
> Anyone want to take this on as a project to get going in San  
> Diego... or the whole State?

Why don't I take this on?  I am one of the members of the San Diego  
County Bar Association's legislative committee, and we have the  
ability to propose changes to the laws (that is, bills) for  
consideration by the legislature.  It is possible that a change to the  
laws governing information about drivers and vehicle owners may be  
required or helpful, and so I'll look at it and report back on how I  
think we'll need to go to set it up.

Sachi Wilson
*Safety Queen*
(and occasionally a lawyer)



From gcarman at san.rr.com  Fri Nov  9 10:22:31 2007
From: gcarman at san.rr.com (Gene Carman)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 07:22:31 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Notification to drivers,
 was Re:  Cyclists can  issue  tickets to bad drivers
In-Reply-To: <1CBA0AC1-2111-4750-B2EC-CCB21EC3961A@sbcglobal.net>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20071108234653.03aa1ae0@cox.net>
	<1CBA0AC1-2111-4750-B2EC-CCB21EC3961A@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20071109152327.HISH6760.cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com@ppg1.san.rr.com>


I'd love to propose changing the 85 percentile rule for modifying 
speeds on a road.


At 06:43 AM 11/9/2007, Sachi Wilson wrote:

>On 8 Nov 2007, at 11:57 pm, Jim Baross wrote:
>
> > I found the source for the info I had about notifying "bad" drivers;
> > Missouri Bicycle Federation;
> > http://mobikefed.org/motoristcontact.html
> >
> > Here's a copy of the letter they send and answers to some questions
> > I had about their program below that.
> >
> > Anyone want to take this on as a project to get going in San
> > Diego... or the whole State?
>
>Why don't I take this on?  I am one of the members of the San Diego
>County Bar Association's legislative committee, and we have the
>ability to propose changes to the laws (that is, bills) for
>consideration by the legislature.  It is possible that a change to the
>laws governing information about drivers and vehicle owners may be
>required or helpful, and so I'll look at it and report back on how I
>think we'll need to go to set it up.
>
>Sachi Wilson
>*Safety Queen*
>(and occasionally a lawyer)
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>You are subscribed to the SDCBC mailing list as gcarman at san.rr.com
>To unsubscribe or change mailing options, go to 
>http://www.bikesandiego.org/mailman/listinfo/sdcbc
>List privacy information is located at http://www.stickman-computing.org/aup
>For help or to talk with someone other than the mail robot, send 
>e-mail to postmaster at stickman-computing.org


From serge at issakov.org  Fri Nov  9 15:05:20 2007
From: serge at issakov.org (Serge Issakov)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:05:20 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Notification to drivers,
	was Re: Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20071108234653.03aa1ae0@cox.net>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20071108234653.03aa1ae0@cox.net>
Message-ID: <69ec985b0711091205s659811bfy274b72d20b4540bb@mail.gmail.com>

If the law is changed so that cyclists can give citations to motorists,
would not motorists also be given the ability to give citations to cyclists?

Careful what you wish for...

Serge


NOTE: Any opinions expressed above are mine and not necessarily shared by
any organization in which I am involved.
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From tobin at broadcom.com  Fri Nov  9 15:59:24 2007
From: tobin at broadcom.com (tobin at broadcom.com)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:59:24 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Nobel Drive Bike Lane Double Feature!
Message-ID: <4734CA2C.nail5FW1F7QLT@xl-irva-07>

> I called them in separately, as the black four dour Jetta had 
> a person on her cell phone in it,

The CA law banning non-headset, non-speakerphone cell phone use while
driving takes effect July 1, 2008.  I'm concerned we'll then see an
increase of people pulling into & blocking bike lanes to make calls,
as I've seen already (but not frequently enough to really complain about).

Can anything be done proacively, or will traffic infrastructure users who
cycle have to endure the inevitable increase in bike lane obstructionists
misbehavior?

Who knew our city's bicycle traffic lanes double as one long, thin
cell-phone parking lot!

R


From thomas.treynolds at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 16:00:50 2007
From: thomas.treynolds at gmail.com (Thomas Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 13:00:50 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Notification to drivers,
	was Re: Cyclists can issue tickets to bad drivers
In-Reply-To: <69ec985b0711091205s659811bfy274b72d20b4540bb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20071108234653.03aa1ae0@cox.net>
	<69ec985b0711091205s659811bfy274b72d20b4540bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <998c822f0711091300y2de1ad9fl4c7d71d25cb8e642@mail.gmail.com>

> If the law is changed so that cyclists can give citations to motorists,
> would not motorists also be given the ability to give citations to cyclists?
>
> Careful what you wish for...

Speaking as a cyclist who regularly commutes in rush hour traffic and
obeys traffic laws, I have no problem with that.

Tom

From JonIsaacs at aol.com  Fri Nov  9 16:14:54 2007
From: JonIsaacs at aol.com (JonIsaacs at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 16:14:54 EST
Subject: [SDCBC] Notification to drivers,
	was Re: Cyclists can issue tickets to ba...
Message-ID: <d08.20fb9d4e.346627ce@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/9/2007 12:06:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
serge at issakov.org writes:

> If the law is changed so that cyclists can give citations to motorists, 
> would not motorists also be given the ability to give citations to cyclists?
> 
> Careful what you wish for...
> 
> Serge


Indeed... And motorists giving tickets to motorists and cyclists giving 
tickets to cyclists...

And to how many cyclists ride, I would be giving tickets mostly to 
cyclists....

Jon  




**************************************
 See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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From abulifia1 at cox.net  Fri Nov  9 17:29:21 2007
From: abulifia1 at cox.net (abulifia1 at cox.net)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 14:29:21 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Notification to drivers,
 was Re: Cyclists can issue tickets to ba...
In-Reply-To: <d08.20fb9d4e.346627ce@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20071109172921.L3Z8S.276508.root@fed1wml01.mgt.cox.net>

Did any of you bother to read the actual byline in the Oregon paper?  Seriously.
The only individuals issuing tickets, per se, are law enforcement.   You're debating something that isn't even a reality.  

The best cyclists in Oregon can do is to fill out a complaint against any given motorist and then, perhaps, if it is so deemed by the highway patrol apparatus, whatever the name of the organization is called in the State of Oregon, then and only then does the motorist get a ticket.  So this is not a matter of tit for tat ticketing.  




---- JonIsaacs at aol.com wrote: 
> In a message dated 11/9/2007 12:06:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
> serge at issakov.org writes:
> 
> > If the law is changed so that cyclists can give citations to motorists, 
> > would not motorists also be given the ability to give citations to cyclists?
> > 
> > Careful what you wish for...
> > 
> > Serge
> 
> 
> Indeed... And motorists giving tickets to motorists and cyclists giving 
> tickets to cyclists...
> 
> And to how many cyclists ride, I would be giving tickets mostly to 
> cyclists....
> 
> Jon  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **************************************
>  See what's new at http://www.aol.com


From Thomas.Jenney at Sun.COM  Fri Nov  9 18:35:22 2007
From: Thomas.Jenney at Sun.COM (Thomas Jenney)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:35:22 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Notification to drivers,
 was Re: Cyclists can issue tickets to ba...
In-Reply-To: <20071109172921.L3Z8S.276508.root@fed1wml01.mgt.cox.net>
References: <20071109172921.L3Z8S.276508.root@fed1wml01.mgt.cox.net>
Message-ID: <4734EEBA.7030309@Sun.COM>

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From abulifia1 at cox.net  Fri Nov  9 21:02:49 2007
From: abulifia1 at cox.net (Abulifia)
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:02:49 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Notification to drivers,
 was Re: Cyclists can issue tickets to ba...
In-Reply-To: <4734EEBA.7030309@Sun.COM>
References: <20071109172921.L3Z8S.276508.root@fed1wml01.mgt.cox.net>
	<4734EEBA.7030309@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <47351149.3030803@cox.net>

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From rob_leone at earthlink.net  Sat Nov 10 09:31:40 2007
From: rob_leone at earthlink.net (Robert Leone)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 06:31:40 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Another Nobel Drive Double Feature.
Message-ID: <4735C0CC.8020308@earthlink.net>

Dear SDCBCers:
	I'm turning into one of those people with nothing better to do than 
report violations, it seems. Friday AM i took a half mile detour on my 
commute to work and woke up some police dispatcher at 6:15 AM to call in 
a SAAB 95 four door (black) and Toyota Sienna (white) [now don't start 
singing "Ebony and Ivory" please!) parked right at the No Parking Bike 
Lane sign at Nobel westbound adjacent to Danica Mae.
	I've had more fulfilling hobbies.

Robert Leone


From camping.elliott at gmail.com  Sun Nov 11 10:32:16 2007
From: camping.elliott at gmail.com (Michael Elliott)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:32:16 -0800
Subject: [SDCBC] Fixing a traffic signal (long)
In-Reply-To: <47345304.4030209@earthlink.net>
References: <47345304.4030209@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <47372080.3070402@gmail.com>

The intersection of Carlsbad Village Drive and Monroe (in Carlsbad, natch) 
has been part of my daily ride for several years. The southbound Monroe 
portion wasn't well-planned for cyclists, though. It has a posted and 
striped bike lane but at the top of the hill, where Monroe intersects with 
CVD the lane vanishes, leaving cyclists no clear place to go to get out of 
the right turn only lane.

In addition, the buried signal loops never detected bikes (as per pretty 
normal) who wish to go straight or turn left. There is no pedestrian 
crosswalk across CVD at that side, either, so no button to press, either.

Cyclists had to cross the right turn lane -- the busiest -- and plant 
themselves in the straight or left turn lane, often for some time before a 
car triggered the signal to give a green. Crossing CVD against the red is 
very dangerous due to very short sightlines which prevent a cyclist from 
seeing crossing traffic in enough time to safely get across the 
intersection -- it's uphill and the crossing cars go very fast through 
that portion of CVD.

So I contacted the city street department about this mess. SDCBC's Kathy 
Keehan also wrote a nice letter to them at my request (thank you, Kathy!). 
After a couple of follow u