[SDCBC] Speed limit setting, was Re: Friars Road Bike Lane Street Sweep

Fri May 11 12:33:00 EDT 2007

Jim,

I think I've been on the TAC for 10 years or so, wow!

Regarding bicyclists, not, they are not side friction.  They can be 
considered when setting speed limits, however.  You go through the normal 
study as I mentioned earlier, then the speed limit can be reduced by an 
additional 5 mph for the presence of bicyclists, pedestrians or equestrians 
OR conditions not readily apparent to the motorist.  (Sorry, max of 5 mph 
reduction.)

For setting the speed limit without radar enforcement, I'm not sure if the 
85th percentile procedure is required, but the CHP tells us that enforcement 
these days without radar is extremely problematic.

In the parlance of traffic engineering, side friction is the presence of 
physical features from the side of the roadway that tends to reduce the 
speed of traffic.  This would include cross streets, driveways, traffic 
calming measures, etc.

In the unincorporated areas of the county, for which the TAC is responsible, 
we would not dream of going ahead without the input of citizens groups such 
as the particular regional planning committee, and an open invitation for 
concerned citizens to speak to the issue at our meetings.  If they don't 
like our recommendation to the Board of Supervisors, they can attend and 
speak at the Board meeting, where the law is actually passed into law.

Not all municipalities are as transparent in this process as are we.  Many 
times regulation is passed at the staff level where the public only finds 
out after the fact.

Bill Matella

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Baross" <JimBaross at cox.net>
To: "Bill Matella" <bmatella at sbcglobal.net>; <SDCBC at bikesandiego.org>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Speed limit setting, was Re: Friars Road Bike Lane 
Street Sweep

> Thanks Bill.
> You get a better idea of what's going on with your commitment to serve as 
> our rep. on that SD Traffic Advisory Committee! How many years has it been 
> that you've served as a volunteer for that?
>
> So, are bicyclists considered "side friction" or what when a study is done 
> and a recommendation made. Is there a procedure that we could be more 
> involved with to rally bicyclist "citizen groups" to request speed limits 
> more attuned to our safety?
>
> Thanks again.
> Jim B
>
> At 08:21 AM 5/11/2007, Bill Matella wrote:
>>Without generalizing to Friars Road specifically, I have seen the
>>"anti-speed trap law result in lower speeds as well as higher.  Generally,
>>as a road becomes more congested with more side friction, the speeds
>>actually decrease.  Therefore, when the roadway speed limit is recertified
>>for radar, an engineering study is performed, including a speed survey to
>>determine the 85th percentile.  I have seen citizen groups request 
>>forgoing
>>the radar certification of a speed limit just to keep the nominal speed
>>plate lower.
>>
>>I cannot attest that all governmental entities follow the state law with
>>equal enthusiasm.
>>
>>Bill Matella
>>SDCBC
>>San Diego Traffic Advisory Committee
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jim Baross" <JimBaross at cox.net>
>>To: <SDCBC at bikesandiego.org>
>>Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 8:00 AM
>>Subject: [SDCBC] Speed limit setting, was Re: Friars Road Bike Lane Street
>>Sweep
>>
>>
>> >I wonder if the "updating" is an example of the current standard for
>> > setting the speed limit at (or very near) the 85% of recorded motor
>> > vehicle speeds? This "anti-speed-trap" law/standard was enacted to
>> > protect motorists from predatory traffic ticketing and since, or also
>> > is embraced by traffic engineers as a "safety practice" believing
>> > that if motorists are traveling faster, it must be safe to do so...
>> > without giving sufficient weight to the hazards higher speeds add to
>> > those who might choose to use a bicycle and walk on those roads.  IMHO.
>> > :-(
>> >
>> > At 06:45 AM 5/11/2007, Gene Carman wrote:
>> >
>> >>At one time the city owned a sweeper that fit that lane...  but it
>> >>has since broken and the city has determined that the budget doesn't
>> >>have room for a new sweeper.
>> >>
>> >>Meantime Friars road used to be a 45MPH road with fairly light
>> >>traffic and few intersections...  but the valley has been fully
>> >>developed, lots of new homes have been added along with driveways,
>> >>and other intersections, and the speed on the road somehow has been
>> >>"updated."  (to reflect not better conditions, but simply motorists
>> >>moving faster) thus making the road decidedly less than bike friendly.
>> >>
>> >>At 05:59 AM 5/11/2007, Fulton Martin wrote:
>> >> >If I'm not mistaken, the reason it gets so dirty is that a regular
>> >> >street sweeper doesn't fit within it, so any sweeping has to be done
>> >> >manually.
>> >> >
>> >> >Jim Baross wrote:
>> >> > > That bermed off space is not a bike lane. It is a non-standard
>> >> > > facility that should be removed, IMHO... or changed in some major
>> >> > > manner that I cannot envision. There are many people however who 
>> >> > > feel
>> >> > > safer behind the berm or on the sidewalk; they don't seem to 
>> >> > > notice
>> >> > > or mind the inconveniences, but I certainly hope they realize the
>> >> > > hazards they face at every driveway and intersection!
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >Fulton Martin
>> >> >__=o&o>__
>> >> >public at exwis.com
>> >> >San Diego, CA
>> >> >N32 43.956, W117 05.874
>> >
>> >
>> >
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