[SDCBC] Good article on bicycle scofflaws

[nnorth]

OK, one of my rare times to chime in.  Watch drivers, cyclist (us), and 
walkers.  A percentage will run/walk thru red lights and stop signs, and use 
the road in a generally unsafe way.  It isn't the majority of any group. 
Just the noticable ones.  I've seen trollies run red lights, busses turn in 
front of on coming cars who had green ligts (school busses, too), and 
counted 6 cars thru an intesection when I had the green.  Un-fortunately, 
modern roads were built for cars. It will take a long concerted battle to 
re-educate society that we are, and belong there, too. Maybe 5$ gas, huh? 
In the mean time, lets get our culture to do it right.

Kathy probably has it right "Peer pressure. Nagging. Club rules. Teaching 
our kids"

Nick North

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Trevor Bourget" <trevorspoke at cox.net>
To: "John Forester" <forester at johnforester.com>; "Sachi Wilson" 
<sachiwilson at sbcglobal.net>; "Sdcbc" <sdcbc at bikesandiego.org>
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [SDCBC] Good article on bicycle scofflaws


> At 06:29 PM 1/5/2007, John Forester wrote:
>>Attributing these instances to social ignorance, or to the desire
>>that cycling be play, ignores the role of society in creating these 
>>attitudes.
>
> Society is not a thing as you have tried to describe it. Saying that
> a group has actions is just shortcut talk for declaring the
> predominant (the "norm") action of particular individuals of the
> group. When I assert that eating while driving is normal, I merely
> mean that it has become common to do so.
>
>>Our society has spent very large efforts for eighty years or more to
>>getting people to understand that motorists should operate as
>>drivers of vehicles.
>
> Yes, when people operate dangerous equipment it is in all of our best
> interests that we be encouraged to use them safely, in order to avoid
> killing each other. It is the proper role of government to protect
> each of our rights by regulating each of us in order to protect the
> others. It is also the proper role of government to regulate
> corporations in order to protect individuals.
>
>>our society has pushed cyclists to the extreme side of the roadway,
>>or even off the roadway, and has since 1975 built bikeways to
>>physically enforce those principles, while all the time saying that
>>these measures are necessary because cyclists are incapable of
>>operating as drivers of vehicles.
>
> I asserted that while some cyclists may be capable of operating as
> drivers of vehicles, the majority of people who may ride a bicycle
> cannot be trusted to ride one according to the laws that govern
> motorists. Ignoring the issue of whether they could be taught the
> skills or the knowledge, I asserted that most individuals who ride
> bicycles do not want to obey any rules when they ride bicycles. They
> want to play. Using the word society as you did, I would say that
> "society thinks bike riding is play".
>
> I suggest that the best way for bicyclists who want to be treated as
> drivers of vehicles to get what they want is to be sure that all
> bicyclists who really do want to play are provided a separate
> playground, so that cyclists who ride in the roadway can be assumed
> to be operating according to vehicular traffic principles. This may
> require that bicyclists who want to ride in the roadway give up
> something, such as their freedom to operate without a proper bicycle
> driving license, perhaps even one that must be affixed visibly to
> their bicycle such as are required for motor vehicles. Other workable
> differentiations may be possible, but I can't think of any at the moment.
>
> I am interested to read what comments John Forester and others have
> to offer in response to these suggestions.
>
> -- Trevor
>
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